So...this chick is blaming someone for using a public forum as a method of communication when she's up here venting? Also, 50 seems normal for a manager's client list.
WHOOOO, FATALITY, Dream A Little Dream, lmao.
All jokes aside, I believe I saw this manager in passing doing a workshop, and if that was him, he should have alerted the workshop owners that he was looking for girls only b4 any unknowing male actors spent their cash.
I don't say that, Jack, because you never know. I could meet a male actor in one of those workshops with a ton of credits that blows me away and I could feel I could do something for. It has happened in the past. I ALWAYS want to keep an open mind. Like all reps, I hate wasting a potential client's time if I feel I cannot do anything for them. When a rep takes on a client, we always have the best intentions. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. It's a crap shoot, mostly.
Also, the people running the workshops wouldn't turn anybody down even if a manager did say that. I went to one workshop with a fellow manager who told the paying clients right off the bat she wasn't looking for people. That was wrong. Keep in mind, there is no guarantee when you go to any workshop that the person will call you in for a meeting. The workshop people never tire of telling actors it is merely for educational purposes only.
I am sorry you still feel anger towards me a year and a half later. I come in peace and my apology is heartfelt. At the time, your actions made me feel very slighted and upset, but I should have just let it go and move on. I know better now. I guess, when you are a manager, there is no learning curve like there is with actors and, apparently, no forgiveness. I am sorry that it is this way.
Unfortunately what you say about the workshop owners is probably right.
Re: that manager that came out and said she wasn't looking for people...nothing more to say than that she is morally bankrupt if she was serious with that quote.
I know of a few CDs off the top of my head who have said that too when being hounded by actors about being called in, but I just think they're being smart and covering they're ass, b/c both that said that called me in.
I assume they're just trying to stay out of the Billy Damota antiworkshop warpath
First of all, I am not angry with you. Not in the least. You were a learning experience that helped me grow. Your actions taught me that in the future, I will be more careful of whom I do business with and I will be quicker to take up for myself and not allow anyone to bully me into doing something that I do not want to do. For that lesson, John, I thank you and wish you the best of luck. However, if anyone asks me about BFM, in good conscience I would have to reiterate my earlier post, and also agree with Secret Agent Man: Not a Big Fan.
That being said, I am curious: What actions exactly, that I supposedly took, are you talking about that made you feel slighted and upset?
I booked from workshops and from previous relationships with CDs, and you got paid. Anyone who reps me gets paid no matter through whom or how I book. That is the way it is, it is the nature of the business, and I have no problem with that. I am happy and grateful to pay out 25% of something than keep 100% of nothing. But, you weren't managing my career. You basically got me out of the agent I had, and in with an agent that was beholden to you. You then left the agent and I to do our jobs and you were only heard from when there was a booking and money to be paid. When I finally called you and told you the truth: that I appreciated your time but I felt you had too many people to truly manage my career, and so I was severing the business relationship, you threatened that if I dropped you, then the agent you got me (who had only got me one audition in 8 months) would be going with you (which was fine), and I would be alone, without representation, and having to start over. (For the record, I am using "nice words" here, not the tone and words you used to threaten and intimidated me with.) You then backed up your threats and called the agent, trashed me and told them to drop me. You then dropped me from your FB page, (which is totally fine, too, of course), only to get on there and berate me, call me stupid and ungrateful, to which a mutual CD friend forwarded me the conversations. I was appalled, yet grateful, that I had made the right decision.
So, let's reiterate: You get me an agent who gets me one audition in 8 months. You and that agent get paid for several jobs I booked from being called in personally (I would always inform the agent and you when I was directly contacted by CDs to come in.) I ultimately call you and give you the respect of personally speaking to you when severing the business relationship and to talk like adults, and in turn you threaten and then trash me every way to Sunday in front of all of the CDs you have as friends on your FB page. You never really did anything for me or against me until I dropped you and then you threw a hissy fit. I've dropped agents before and have been dropped myself. It hurts but it was always business, and until I dropped John, no one had felt the need to retaliate. So, again, tell me, who should be the one to feel slighted and upset?
And, all-knowing Meggan...please, show me a reputible manager that competantly, succesfully and single-handedly manages 50 clients. My agency has 270 theatrical clients and 4 theatrical agents, but that is an agency. A manager should have no more than 20 clients to do a proper job. "This chick" (using two thumbs here) can back that up with friends who have managers who are in constant contact with them, and their rosters go a little sumpthen like this: (I'll help a sister out by doing some of the approximating addition and divison) Two of my friends are with Omnipop which has 46 clients (4 less than BFM) and 4-5 managers manage those 46 clients, soooo 9-12 clients each. One is with Management 360 which has about 500 clients and 24 managers (20 clients each), 3 friends are with 3 Arts Management (what I wouldn't give, but I digress) which has 550 clients and 23 managers (23 clients each), Brillstein has about 600 clients and 29 managers (20 clients each) Gotham has 250 clients and 13 managers (20 clients each) and all of these do not include the associates and/or assistants. So, your statement that 50 clients per manager is normal is backed up with whatttt? And furthermore, if you are a client of his, then you are also a FB friend of his and have obviously been privvy to his FB rants about clients, yet...whatever...yawwwwwn. I AM getting myself worked up. Ha ha ha. Stupid.
Life is too short, man. All in all I learned a valuable lesson and, afterall, that is what life is all about.
Once you know better, you have a responsability to do better.
I felt slighted that I got you agents (theatrical and commercial) and that you decided to drop me and keep both agents; I think any manager would feel the same way. When the commercial agent decided to drop you, from what I was told, you called her up and started crying and begged her to take you back, which she did, but then you drop them soon after for another commercial agent. If you had decided to drop all of us and make a completely clean slate, I would not have reacted the way I did. But, at the time, I was very upset and my reaction was a bit extreme, because I felt rather used. I also, and correct me if I am wrong, but I do not believe, on FB, I referred to you by name. If I did, then yes, that was wrong, but I don't recall I did that. But that was a year and a half ago and would not respond in that fashion anymore, as I realize clients come and go and you just need to move on.
Yes, I did appreciate the commissions and I am sorry that neither agents nor I could have done much for you. This was not a reflection on you. But I am a better manager now and have learned a lot and my clients are auditioning and booking all the time. The last couple of years have been quite good. If I feel I couldn't handle all of those clients, I wouldn't have. I've been a manager for 12 years and I feel competent in my abilities to juggle all of those people. They all have recognizable credits, all placed with good agencies and they all audition on a regular basis. Also, all of the management companies you named are the biggest companies in town. Of course, they have a smaller client roster, as all of their clients are probably series regulars and they don't need much more than that. I am a smaller company and all my clients are not series regulars and they all work sporadically, so I need to have a larger roster to make money.
Sometimes, you take a client on and, try as you might, you just can't do anything for them. It happens. I know you wanted a manager who handled maybe you and one or two other clients. That is generally not the norm, but I am happy you found one who does.
Yes, it was a learning experience for both of us, and I hope we can both move forward and put the past behind us. Like I said, I am happy for your success and I am sorry for the way it turned out.
Also, let me give you an example of a recent occurrence. I had a client for a couple of years and got her on "2 Broke Girls", "The Wedding Band" and a movie. Because of those credits, I got her with a good agency. We were good friends but, over the last few months, she hasn't been going out. She calls me up and wants to find another manager. I told her it is wrong to leave me while keeping the agent I got her. She understood and we came to an agreement that, if the agent I got her gets her a job independent of the new manager, she would still pay me a commission, as it was me and my contacts who got her with that agent. If the new manager got her a job independent of the agent, I would be owed nothing. I felt that was fair and professional and we are still good friends. (The new manager she got is also a friend of mine, so no hard feelings.)
The only time I ever get upset when a client leaves me is A.) They owe me money and B.) I get them an agent and they drop me and keep the agent. It is very hard for anybody to get with an agent nowadays because pilot season this year was so horrible for everybody. (Two of my clients booked pilots this year, but I had fewer auditions that normal. And every agent I work with told me the same thing.) I work very hard to get clients with, what I feel, are good agents, so when I feel like I will not be getting anything for my hard work, like the client drops me just because they don't want to pay the extra percentage, it's upsetting. I don't think that was the case with Dream; she just wanted a manager who would give her more attention that I could have, I will assume. I just wished, when she dropped me, she also dropped the agents as well, as she ultimately did. I have no problem with clients who want to get a completely new team, if the old team is not working for them. Yes, I let my emotions get the best of me (I have talked to a few managers who also felt the same way I did. Every manager in town has stories like that) but I have learned you can't let that happen.
Not addressing john.
If a manager gets you seen by an agent is he really getting you an agent? If you still have to audition and stuff is that really getting an agent for someone? Its weird because o feel like it's great if a manager gets you seen but it is your own strength that gets the person a manager. This whole thread makes me think twice about getting a manager...
If you don't have any agency contacts, you could hire a manager who does and the manager sends your materials out to agents that he or she knows in the hopes of getting meetings. Now, you still have to prove yourself to that agent in order to get them to take you on. Keep in mind managers only get a small percentage because we only do a small percentage of the work.
Some managers can actually get you signed with an agent they are close too just based on their relationship. Now that doesn't mean the agent will love you, and push and submit you all the time if you suck, but you can get signed.
I do have to say, its a bit remiss of John to say that he got his people roles on such and such a show, unless he completely bypassed the audition process and has that kind of juice. Those actors still had to audition and clear the CD, Writers, Producer, and possibly head of network.
Keep this in mind Kay gee, most of your early roles will be scale. Production will pay your fee and pay the agent an addition %10 that doesn't affect your pay. Most managers to my understanding take %15, and that comes out of your cut.
Managers can be helpful, but like having kids, they're not for everybody and not mandatory.
Allow me to clarify: I got the clients the auditions. They booked the jobs, but if it wasn't for me or the agent submitting and pitching them, they probably would not have gotten in the room to audition. Now, some actors get in on auditions based on workshops. If they book a job based off the relationships they make from those workshops, it is an agent's or manager's job to use that booking to pitch other casting directors that the client may not know.
I always say, especially when you are starting out, 75% of something is better than 100% of nothing. Managers are more hands-on then agents and you can ask them questions and talk to them more than an agent would. It's so competitive out there, I personally think it's a good idea to have a full team working for you as opposed to half a team.
Again, you mangle the truth. The agent you got me called me to tell me that YOU were crying to her and asked her to drop me. She never dropped me. She asked me what the deal was between you and I and I told her. Having not gotten me but one audition, I seriously couldn't have cared less if she dropped me or not (except for the principle of the matter), but she didn't. In fact, she said that she "wasn't in the business of punishing people, a lesson John needs to learn." She kept repping me until she left that office for another one and, as I hear it, took no clients with her. I had already been submitting to other agencies before she left and signed with another after that.
Thank you for acknowledging on here that you indeed DID bash me on your FB page for CDs and Agents to see. Professional. Proof that what everyone has been claiming on here is true. And as for...that was 1 1/2 years ago and you "don't respond in that fashion" anymore, I think the OP who you just did the same thing to would disagree.
The management companies that I list on here are "the biggest in town" because they are actually hands-on and each handle 60% less clients than you. They do what managers are supposed to do and that is why they rise to the top and don't simply collect people.
Thank you for acknowledging on here that you were paid for jobs that I booked that you had nothing to do with. In fact, no jobs that you were paid for were procured through you or the agent you got me. So, how is it again that your admittedly "extreme" reaction to me leaving was because you "felt rather used?"
So, I see you are using my phrase (better to pay 25% of something than to keep 100% of nothing), and "always say...75% of something is better than 100% of nothing" in your own way and twisted to your benefit. Oy. You say "managers are more hands-on than agents." Yes, they are absolutely supposed to be, but that was NOT my experience with you and the reason why I left. How can you be more hands-on when you have MORE clients than most agents have? There are only two reasons to get a manager and that is if you are at the beginning stages where you can't get an agent, or if you are so busy with bookings that you need someone to help you manage day to day operations.
And yes, KayGee, you are exactly right. Agents will take meetings on a managers referral, but it IS up to the actor to seal the deal, just as in an audition process. That is why actors get dropped all the time: they get in a room and don't deliver. And that is why managers and agents get dropped: they don't get you in the room. I have been in an agent meeting where a CD referred me, yet I wasn't signed. Had I been, did I owe that CD a percentage on each and every job I booked? I don't think so, and I don't think they would have expected that, but I did send a hella gift card and letter thanking him anyway. I just didn't seal the deal.
However, John states he gets his clients in the room for recurring this, guest star that, yet it was MY personal experience that he gets you an agent and waits for THEM to do that, and THAT is how he makes his $. THAT is why he has so many clients. The auditions he did get me, and I always passed on, were ULB nudity.
Lastly, John, you state and gear towards me that "Sometimes, you take a client on and, try as you might, you just can't do anything for them." I have over a dozen current co-star, guest, and recurring network credits on my resume. What more do you need to be able to get a person in the room?
That is not the story she told me and she did take clients with her when she moved on her own. I currently share two clients with her.
Agents are the ones who are supposed to procure work. Managers are developing clients and placing them with a team. If it wasn't for a manager who placed a client with an agent, a client wouldn't have that agent, so therefore wouldn't have the audition. It is a team effort.
Anyway, I really don't feel the need to keep apologizing and explaining myself for something that happened a year and a half ago. I feel I have become a better manager and sometimes client relationships work and sometimes they don't. Ours clearly didn't, but I have many relationships with clients that work, otherwise I wouldn't have the clients that I have and wouldn't have stayed in business for over 10 years. The relationship between a manager and a client is like dating; sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. You are upset because I discussed your behavior on my PRIVATE FB page (I don't recall ever saying your name), and yet that is EXACTLY what you are doing with me on a PUBLIC page. Like I said, you can't have it both ways. Apparently, it is ok for an actor to curse out an agent or manager publicly, but when we do it, it's "unprofessional". Two wrongs do not make a right.
Anyway, bottom line is you can accept my apology and we can both move forward with our lives or you can carry a grudge and badmouth me to whomever will listen for the rest of your life. It is up to you. But I am not going to keep arguing my case over and over again. I'm done discussing it on here and would rather spend my energies on more positive and open conversations about the business.
If you still have issues with me after a year and a half, I suggest we talk about it in person like professional adults instead of spewing negativity and airing dirty laundry on a public chatboard. People reading this have me at a disadvantage; my name and company are public but you are using a pseudonym. Like I mentioned earlier, I want to become a better manager and a better person and to make things right. Thank you.
You DO realize that you have more clients to "manage" than what her entire agency lists on their roster.
So THAT is what you mean when you say YOU get your clients auditions: The agency you got your client an interview with got them in a room and you are taking half the credit. Thanks for making my point. And btw, Developing a client does not mean getting them an agent and then sitting back and doing nothing but taking half the credit for auditions and bookings.
Oh...nooooo thank you. I actually have no problem with you...anymore. However, I do have a moral obligation to set a record straight that you try to skew, for unknowing potential clients who come on a this message board wanting to get truthful information about your company. I wish you absolutely no ill will, but the person you are portraying on this board is not the man I had business relations with. Not in the least.
However, your "private FB page" is replete with agents, CDs and production alike. Don't you have over 1000 "friends?" You constantly, as a representative of your company, bash actors, and promoted your consultation services. To bash a client, as a manager, knowing that all of those people are privy to it is classless. That is why the CD forwarded me the information.
I've tried to make this last response in a neutral manner, but you keep editing your last reply to be more and more bitter and I can't keep up. (It initially was only about 6 sentences but now I see it is several paragraphs.) So, I will continue to respond in kind on here as long as you continue to twist the facts of my experience. I have learned (quite frankly, from my encounters with you) to not back down when being confronted with half-truths and blackmail.
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