I think everybody needs to take a step back and realize this is a forum to ask questions and learn as much as they can, personally attacking anybody, whether it's a Agent/manager/photog or member is not necessary. Any personal feeling should be done in private pm. I think a legitimate question was asked in reference to Nathans' business model.

Having worked with Nathan and his assistant Robert, he is a very good photographer and really does genuinely care about kids and parents in this business. I don't think there is any intent to "scam" people. That being said, I think he may need to reconsider the model of this business as it is similar to well known scam models.

I would hate to see assumptions being made just from his model site.

My dds first photo shoot was with Nathan. He did a nice job with the pics and she had lots of fun. I remember at the shoot, we were talking about me almost being scammed by a modeling agency charging a huge fee. I also remember us talking about online communities to help as resources to parents and to help guide. He seemed like he really cared about kids and parents and how to help us out. I know that he is extremly proffesional and im sure he has a good intent. As with everything, you have the choice.. to pay or not to... that would be YOUR decision!!!! Everyone is entitled to an opinion but I think it should be done with good taste.

Nathan is no way a scammer and he is the most wonderful, geniune guy you could ever meet. I think some people are just down right miserable and need something to complain about at all times. If you don't want to buy his book, then don't but don't put the guy down for trying to get ahead in this horrible economy! I give him credit for being a smart businessman and a absolute wonderful photographer! Go Nathan and please don't let these people bring you down!

I'm sure Nathan is a great photographer and I'm sure he cares about his clientele.

I was expressing my OPINION about his choice to force people to purchase his book in order to become a member of his online community. And, from seeing posts here and on other acting websites, it appears that many people agree with my opinion.

It's a shame you have people who can't handle others' opinion if it doesn't sound like what they want to hear or agree with what they're saying. They resort to name-calling and accusations.

Not once on this thread did I get nasty with ANYONE.... I merely posted my OPINION on the issue... that's it and that's all. And what happens??? I get called "nasty", "angry", etc... So, who are the nasty ones?????

I agree with TJ mom and seca and many of you that not only is Nathan a great photographer but a great person. His character however is not something that needs to be discussed. The question is whether he is a good photog and indeed he is thought to be universally. Whether he is a good businessman will be determined by his bottom line. No one is forced to buy anything and many sites (this one included) sell a premium membership for so many dollars per month or per year. I have succeeded in skipping all of DianeNYC's posts and I suggest everyone do the same as she is clearly a very angry person with desire to hurt and attack others. My neice did a search (kids can be kids) and found that DianeNYC posts all over the place and each time it is, she claims, angry, critical hysterical personal attacks often on someone's character never having apologized to anyone or anything.
She'll often claim using large letters like a teenager that "is it only my opinion!!!" as if it is okay to yell a racist remark into a crowd is okay because it is only someone's opinion.
To quote someone I respect
"Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Everyone does not have the right, however, to express that opinion."
DianeNYC, I speak for a lot of people. No one wants your opinion.
Nathan if you read this, please know that the question was about if you were/are a good photographer and the answer appears to be a universal YES!
B

Beatrice,

I've contributed a lot more to these forums than you ever will. And the vast majority of it has been positive, helpful, and informative.

Your "niece" (aka YOU) doing a search on my name doesn't impress me.... Just like on ANY message board, people get into heated debates. If you don't like it, then don't read it!!! Again, you choose what you want to read and you've decided to read posts where there are debates going on about one thing or the next.

Try looking at some of the posts where I give information, positive feedback, or advice. You seem to have a lot of time on your hands since you had the time (oops, I mean your "niece") to view my other posts.

Also, this post was NOT about whether or not Nathan Yungerberg is a good photographer. It was the original poster asking people to log on to his site and vote for her daughter. Turns out, it costs $24.95 to access his site and that's where the debate started. The debate was about him forcing people to buy a book in order to access his site.

"Everyone does not have the right to express their opinion"??? Since when? Who are you to tell anyone what they can and can't say??? And who are you to tell anyone to ignore someone else's posts?????

I have a wonderful suggestion for you.... Why don't you open your own message boards (you can easily do this on Yahoo) and you can all support one another and tell each other what you want to hear. You can forbid any and all opinions and make the #1 rule is that everyone agree with one another and no one should dare to express anything other than what you want to hear.

DianeNYC - Perhaps you should read the original post again - I certainly was not asking anyone to log on his site, pay and vote for her! I thought there may be existing members on here who would be interested in supporting someone from this board - like I would be happy to do for them. It would be easy for me to sit and express what I thought of you and your "opinions" but I will choose not to, it is a complete waste of my time. I learned a long time ago from another person like yourself that I will always be the better person, I sleep better knowing and feeling that way! What I will say is that I hope this topic can come to a close since the people who matter, have agreed that Nathan Yungerberg is a genuinely kind hearted person who happens to also be a wonderful photographer and businessman.

I am curiuos what job you do for 40+ hours a week that allows you to post on this site 24/7?

How interesting that this thread has turned into a free-for-all personal attack on someone who dared to question Nathan Yungerberg's business model. If you can only defend this person by trashing his critics, then maybe there is some substance to the legitimate, unanswered questions that are being raised here and elsewhere about this model search business he's started.

Nathan may be a good photographer, but beware of anyone who, like Nathan, sells himself as a "scout." There is simply no business need for scouts, except to shakedown inexperienced parents who don't know any better. Anyone who tells you otherwise is scamming you.

This Board could actually do parents some good if people could actually discuss the issues in an intelligent, calm manner. And if the shills were banned.

quote:

Originally posted by drcole22:
DianeNYC - Perhaps you should read the original post again - I certainly was not asking anyone to log on his site, pay and vote for her! I thought there may be existing members on here who would be interested in supporting someone from this board - like I would be happy to do for them. It would be easy for me to sit and express what I thought of you and your "opinions" but I will choose not to, it is a complete waste of my time. I learned a long time ago from another person like yourself that I will always be the better person, I sleep better knowing and feeling that way! What I will say is that I hope this topic can come to a close since the people who matter, have agreed that Nathan Yungerberg is a genuinely kind hearted person who happens to also be a wonderful photographer and businessman.

I am curiuos what job you do for 40+ hours a week that allows you to post on this site 24/7?

She happens to work for me.
Any other questions?

quote:

Originally posted by n2ny:
Nathan may be a good photographer, but beware of anyone who, like Nathan, sells himself as a "scout." There is simply no business need for scouts, except to shakedown inexperienced parents who don't know any better. Anyone who tells you otherwise is scamming you.

This Board could actually do parents some good if people could actually discuss the issues in an intelligent, calm manner. And if the shills were banned.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed that Nathan touts himself as a "scout", which is basically a non-existent term in the legitimate side of the business......

I'm also glad someone else noticed how all the shills came out of the woodwork on this thread.

quote:

Originally posted by boysboysboys:
To quote someone I respect
"Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Everyone does not have the right, however, to express that opinion."
DianeNYC, I speak for a lot of people. No one wants your opinion.
B

Boysboysboys, you sure as hell don't speak for me nor the many other industry people who agree with Diane NYC's assesment of the business model. I've heard more concerns than praise over his "model scouting" website. Everyone here is entitled to their opinion and is entitled to express it. DianeNYC raised a valid concern about a website that looks scammy. There are people with years and YEARS of experience on this board who have seen this type of website model and who track people in the industry that raise red flags and they do it to protect YOUR kids and mine. We all benefit from their diligence. Perhaps it is YOU who should be ignored for trying to stifle debate.

From my experience over the past two years I find Nathan's website very cute but unneccessary for your son or daughter to be a successful print model. You don't need a middle man. The grand prize is a visit to NYC to meet with Generation or Product. All you have to do is contact them directly. Most of the 20 finalists don't even live in the NYC area so signing with an agent in NYC doesn't make sense.

Diane's style may be intense, but don't let it detract from what she is saying. Yes, we all agree that NY has been a top-notch, respected photog in NY. But the website raises red flags and concerns to many veterans and child performer advocates in the biz. It touts itself as a resource for those wanting to get in to the biz...but is inaccessible unless you pay. We've said over and over and over that you should not pay for anything to get started in this biz. I don't think it's fair to compare his website to the pay-for-services areas of the casting websites. The other information areas of those sites are free (actors access and backstage, to name a few). And finally, the online contest feels like a hook, to me. It reaches out to amateurs and lures them in, enticing them with the possibility of joining the wonderful world of professional child modeling by dangling a prize of a meeting with NY agencies. Another poster has already pointed out the irrelevance of this "prize" if you do not live in the metro area.

Another poster said, "you have the choice.. to pay or not to... that would be YOUR decision," but for parents, desperate to find a way to get their kids "seen" (how many times have we heard that on this board alone!!!), they may see this as the ticket to the professional world. They see pictures of kids who are placed with top agencies, have interest from several agencies ect. They see the offerings of this website as a panacea...it looks like the holy grail of info for the child modeling industry, yet all of it could be easily found/acessed for free with a simple google search. These are all tactics that have been used in scam models. I realize that Nathan has a great reputation and great intentions, but this biz model still screams, "pay money and you will find the path to stardom!" I won't even discuss the "scouting" and "discoveries" tabs! The reality is, child models barely make enough to cover costs, even when they book the higher paying jobs. This website makes it appear that your kid could be a star and that's just not the reality in this biz. Wish I had more time to write a more detailed review. In a nutshell, my review...the website is misleading. I know this thread started out about voting, but we'd be remiss if we did not point out the red flags raised by this kind of website.

I'm out for the afternoon...enjoy the debate!

You hit the nail on the head Madison. First of all, child print does not pay enough to even consider moving to Ny from out of town for. Most NYC agencies will only take kids that live within an hour of the city. They are not going to take on out of state kids unless they are coming in to spend the whole summer or under a very specific and unusual circumstance. You also don't need professional headshots or comp cards to submit to print agencies. For acting, yes...but for print, NO! A few good snapshots will do. I'm curious to know if Nathan's book will be listing all of these little facts. If I were to guess, I'd say "NO" because that would be in direct conflict with his photography business where he makes money shooting comp card pics or just better quality pictures in general. Maybe I'm wrong and I hope I am but if you are going to tell the real story of the modeling industry and the necessity of pictures then that should include getting tear sheets for free to use as comp card pics and not needing professional photos to submit or when you are just starting out. That information is in direct conflict with a photographers goal to take and sell pictures. Now, if that info is included, kudos to him. If not, hmmmm.

Kip,
We must have been posting at the same time about how little print actually pays. We both know that moving to NY (or any major modeling market) to pursue a print career for a child would be ludicrous.