Ok, so here's a topic I'm interested in getting some feedback in. There is a HUGE split in what is considered talented these days for children. I am an acting teacher, and I teach children on a daily basis. I've seen the whole spectrum of what I like to call "talent". There are those children who are raised on the Disney Channel who believe that what they are watching is "great acting". I've seen those shows, "Suite Life of Zack and Cody", "Hannah Montana", "Cory in the House", etc. That to me, is NOT great, no scratch that, its not even halfway DECENT acting. They are overacting, indicating, telegraphing, and generalizing their characters. Now, of course, I understand the demographics. They are playing roles to entertain CHILDREN, but they are also neglecting their abilities, and quite frankly, embarrassing the true nature of the craft. I don't blame them, I blame Disney, Nickelodeon for their "rush delivery" style of production. Disney is a giant leech sucking off of these kids, and what happens in the end? What kind of work are these kids going to get when their shows dry up? They are gonna wind up like Corey Haim and Corey Feldman OR they are gonna wind up like the Olsen Twins, washed up has-beens who have to make money through other means. Now, as far as the Olsen twins go, they're multimillionaires, but its because of business and marketing, NOT because of their talent as actors. But then you have the Dakota Fanning's, and the Natalie Portman's, and the Haley Joe Osment's. The child actors that are incredible at playing convincing characters and bringing their art to life. This is the kind of acting that children need to reach for. When working with children, I hear constantly, "I wanna be like Hannah Montana!". This frightens me and makes me think where the industry is going these days. I work with kids on character analysis. I make them think about the who's and the why's of the scene they're working on. I want them to dig deeper, and ask questions about their character, and then give me convincing answers when they perform it. I feel like I am CONSTANTLY fighting the "disney" channel acting methods when I approach the work with children. What do you all think of the difference between Disney acting, and acting with technique?

Just talking about this exact same thing with D's agent. I make sure she watches quality actors (American movie classics!!) and I always point out how horrible the "Disney " acting is!!

I love this post. I talk about this with my friends all the time when looking for an acting coach for their child. I think you need to keep fighting the disney channel acting. While there is a place for kids who want to be a disney actor, my personal take is, if you want to be a long time successful actor in FF and such, as a child, you need to learn how to really act. Like you said "bringing their art to life", this is so important and becoming rare. I say as an acting coach, keep doing what you are doing. I am very selective in who coaches my daughter for this very reason.

You bring up great points,but also remember not all children are going to be master thiespians.I mean those kids do serve some purpose like you said.They are, their to entertain. Not all these kids are going to be the next "Jodie Foster's of the world....I mean it can also work the other way too..Look at Tatum O'nell, as a child actor she was great,"Bad new bears","Paper Moon".I mean to this day I love that movie.But when she became an adult her acting was very lacking.And with Natalie Portman and Dokota Fanning they've done more Drama filled movies, not much of comedy or anything else.They are meant to be doing those kind of films.They are the lucky one's that people consider good actors.

I love you guys!

It is hard to coach them out of this "style" of acting. Now, don't get me wrong, I think those kids have great abilities. They DO work hard, but they are "cookie-cutter" method actors. They play caricatures, and not characters. I see why they are though, so this is why I don't blame the kids on those shows. Its Disney. I can't stand hearing those lousy laugh tracks too. This is, unfortunately how Disney can manipulate children, erg. It does get on my nerves. What really bothers me is knowing how hard it is for a child actor to keep busy in the bizz. A child is only a child for so long, then, they have the long "luxury" of being an adult. So many child stars dry up, and you don't hear from them because their career ended at the age of 15. And networks and studios like Disney and Nickelodeon KNOW this, and they don't care. They'll spit you out as soon as you're not bringing in revenue for them. And to top it off, the kids will then try to make it in the REAL world of acting, and they don't get anywhere because they are ill-prepared. Clearly, I have a problem with this.
Teaching kids is a blessing for me. I learn from them just as much as they learn from me. It truly is wonderful to see someone break away from assuming a character, to letting a role sink into them, and its amazing to watch them dig deeper and take it even farther...but it is a slooooww process sometimes!

quote:

Originally posted by Karrihiggy:
You bring up great points,but also remember not all children are going to be master thiespians.I mean those kids do serve some purpose like you said.They are, their to entertain. Not all these kids are going to be the next "Jodie Foster's of the world....I mean it can also work the other way too..Look at Tatum O'nell, as a child actor she was great,"Bad new bears","Paper Moon".I mean to this day I love that movie.But when she became an adult her acting was very lacking.And with Natalie Portman and Dokota Fanning they've done more Drama filled movies, not much of comedy or anything else.They are meant to be doing those kind of films.They are the lucky one's that people consider good actors.

I understand where you're coming from. I'm speaking in terms of TALENT though. I don't think these Disney actors have what it takes to play REAL characters. Shia Lebeouf was able to break away from it, but the vast majority of these kids won't be able to succeed beyond Disney, and Disney will get rid of them as soon as they grow a little older.

Great discussion. I wanted to offer a perspective from the west since that is where this dilemma plays out on a daily basis.

I, and most of Hollywood, totally agree with you: Disney Channel/Nickelodeon is not quality acting. It's over the top, silly, but entertaining. And here the focus is about getting a job, not just acting ability. The target audience for Hannah is entertained, so they are doing their job.

Most professional kid actors over the age of 8 realize this. At least the true actors (those who have it in their heart) do! And, like their adult counterparts, they wish for meatier roles. They settle for Hannah, and find the joy in the fact that they entertained 7 year olds.

In my experience, the kids who say, "I wanna be like Hannah Montana" are not actors. They just want to be FAMOUS. Not actors, FAMOUS. That attitude is the root of every child-actor-gone-bad problem.

I'm going to say this, but I know you will disagree...I think John Robert Powers breeds this crap. They advertise with phrases like, "Be discovered by the CD who casts shows LIKE Hannah Montana and Corey in the House. You could be the next Hannah Montana!" When you call for kids like that, what kids are you expecting to show up at your door? You aren't seeing the REAL actors. You are seeing the carictures of actors, whose parents are willing to pay for a shot at fame.

Day in LA:
My daughter is Hannah Montana age--11. She likes the show. She watches Disney and Nick. She WORKS for Disney and Nick. But she recognizes the bad acting. When she gets a script to audition for hannah montana, she is conflicted. She loves the idea of having fun on the set, but she has a really hard time being so ridiculously over the top. It's an inner conflict.

In LA, where most of those shows film, our kids must learn BOTH styles of acting. They must be able to audition for Hannah Montana at 3:00pm and then drive over to audition for E.R. an hour later. THAT is acting. When you can "be" anything your employer requires. When you can be entertaining TO THE TARGET AUDIENCE.

It's tough, I'll admit it. Good acting coaches here (note the difference between an acting teacher and a coach, btw) have to constantly remind kids to consider the context of every audition. It isn't GENERAL acting abililty that you might learn in a general acting class. It's specific to employment. What network is it on? Sitcom or drama? Sacastic flat or over-the-top? Who is the writer and what else have they done? What is the pace (do they speak rapidly and intelligently like West Wing, or slowly, for laughs, like Roseanne)? etc etc

It's not uncommon for the best kid actors in LA to be told they are "not Disney enough" when they audition for those shows. It's not uncommon for top agencies to refuse to send their kids on Disney or Nick auditions (they don't pay enough). Being "Disney" is not exactly a compliment here. Remember the old caste system where "film" actors wouldn't do "tv" because it was considered an inferior art form? It's like that in LA with Disney/Nick (AFTRA contracts) and the rest of television.

Most of the quality acting kids do one of two things:
--just accept that they won't get employed for Disney and Nick any time soon. They won't be "famous". Their jobs will be fewer but more quality and higher paying.
OR
--they learn the skill of acting both ways

The auditioning thing? It's a skill all to itself. I think wise employees of Disney Channel/Nickelodeon take quality acting classes on the weekends. They seek movies and tv that they can do on the haitus. It's one reason that being "recurring" on a Disney or Nick show can be infinitely better than being a series regular, if you are true actor at heart. You are free to explore other venues for acting, better roles, and you dont' have to deal with the fame.

Actors want to be ACTORS, not famous like Hannah Montana.

A

Henryshowbiz,

That was the most intelligent, informative post I've seen in here is a loooooong time! Thank you for that! It makes me feel bad for those actors that get stuck in the roles on those disney shows though. They get typecast, and then forgotten about in a few years. I never thought about the kids that have to balance work that requires talent and work that requires the "clowning" aspect of Disney. Im so used to working with the kids that want to be "disney's next star" that it does make me forget that sometimes the kids that are on those shows are doing it for some form of supplication. Oh, I agree with you about JRP. Yes, I know, I work here, but Im doing everything I can to get the kids to "work", and not just be an animated goofball. You're right about JRP's marketing, and thats why we bring in what we do. Its my job to remold them to get out of that brainwashing! Thank you, thank you, thank you, for that wonderful perspective!!!

Henryshowbiz,

I was thinking the exact same thing when I read the original post. Kids coming in that say they want to be Hannah Montana just want to be rich and famous, or in a child's mind, really be her!

My dd auditions for Nick/Disney and "real" TV shows and has worked on both. When she reads for Nick and Disney, she watches their shows and knows what they want, when she auditions for a FF or a dramatic TV show she relies on her true acting ability. She is only 11, so she gets excited to work on Disney and Nick because, well, she is a kid! I think she does know the difference but is just grateful to be working.

Wow, Henryshowbiz, you hit the nail on the head with your post! My son is 14 and one of the reasons why I'm willing to help him do this crazy acting thing is because he is not interested in being a star, he's interested in being an actor. In fact, the biggest problem he probably has with auditions is being comfortable talking about himself! It's amazing how someone who can be shy about talking about himself can get on stage or in front of a camera without a second thought and totally become the character. I think many of the kids today are more into being famous then they are in love with acting. It's nice that my son doesn't even concern himself with the size of the role, he just likes having an opportunity.

One of the things I like to point out to my son are the not the main characters in movies but the smaller character roles that add so much to a film. I've pointed out many actors that have a great career, they are working actors after all and work alot, but they are able to lead normal lives. That's what I hope my son is able to do...earn a living doing what he loves but able to go home at the end of the day to a normal life. Could there be anything better then that? Somehow I don't see the Nick/Disney shows as being a reliable path to that end.

Singin4mom, when reading your post about your son not being comfortable talking about himself, yet is completely comfortable up on stage or in front of cameras, it provoked a question I was curious about. My dd does NOT like to watch herself. When she has a commercial running, or is on a TV show, we are SO excited to see it and she does NOT like to watch herself. Covers face, leaves the room, just has no interest in the "finished product". She does not tell her friends to watch or talk about her show being on etc. She is VERY extroverted, not a shy bone in her body and has even asked me once what it feels like to be nervous as she does not think she has ever felt that before. SO, I know she really loves the acting part and not "being famous". I just find it so odd that she does not want to see her "work". Do any of your kids feel this way, or is this abnormal? I have read a long time ago, that some big actors find it very uncomfortable to watch their own movies etc. Anyway, just curious if anyone else experienced this with their child?

Moviestargirl, I haven't run into that problem with my DS but I have also heard of actors having that problem so I wouldn't worry about it much. DS seems to enjoy watching the finished product as much as we do. I think it all boils down to everyone has a different personality. Aren't these message boards great! I love hearing all the input from everyone!

LOVE this thread! Thanks for starting it, Avid. You need to move on from JRP and teach on your own.

Hugs to Henryshowbiz! As always, you nailed it! Whenever my son auditioned for Disney/Nick, he was always told to "make it bigger," which he would do, and book. Even when I auditioned for a Nick project (yes me, still cracks me up) I felt like I was doing more of a SNL type of character, which they said they liked because I was aware of the energy they wanted. I didn't book it, but I could totally tell the difference of what I had to do with the character.

As far as having kids that don't like to talk about themselves or like watching themselves, that's my son, too. Although, now as an adult, he does like watching himself if it's an intense role in a heavy drama. He likes how he feels the intensity all over again. But, when he watches himself as a child, especially if it's a comedy he was in, he laughs, rolls his eyes and leaves the room. Go figure! LOL

I wanted to add that it is hard on the kids that start on a Disney/Nick show. We have noticed that "some of them," not all, really had a hard time making the transition and everything we saw them in later was still that same character with all the same qwirks they had on their first show. It shows how important it is, especially for the Disney/Nick kids, to continue to train with quality teachers, to understand the difference in acting techniques and be able to bring truth to other characters, without having to be over the top.

My dd hates to see herself. She has looked at her print portfolio maybe two times in two years. She is getting better about it because so many coaches have asked her to practice in front of a mirror, but she still thinks it's all no big deal. She wants to work, loves that part, but doesn't want to talk about it or see the finished result. She has never asked me after an audition if she got a part. I tell her because i know she must be thinking about it, but she just says "when is the next audition?"

So you are not alone...all kids are different.