Yea and about Elian. I think that the world got caught up in his story that they felt empathy for him and his mother's struggle to get him over here. He was also very cute. O and he wasn't Mexican.

But when ppl like Donald53 group these "beaners" into a whole entity, you don't hear their struggles or even bother to care. You just feel that they're a nuisance. I think that's why you supported Elian and yet oppose illegal immigration. How ironic.

No, I actually care a great deal about the struggles of Mexicans and other groups who migrate here.

I read something like 400 people drown a year trying to cross the Rio Grande River. I've seen specials on tv about kids losing limbs while hopping freight trains.

The number of people dying and suffering in the desert as they try to come here is heartbreaking.

I'd like to HELP them not hurt them.

Who is helping the ones drowning? Who is helping the ones crossing the desert with just a gallon of water?

Who is helping the ones who are exploited at work and in housing once they get here?

Looking the other way as people sneak in is causing a LOT of grief.

I don't think it's humane or kind to look the other way. I'm all for securing the borders.

Why can't they just come here legally??? Too lazy to fill out the paperwork? Too impatient to wait while the paperwork goes through? Or is it just easier to run across the border and settle in?

I used to work with a guy from Mexico. He told me he had tried a bunch of times to get here illegally --- swimming across, hopping the fence, etc., but he kept getting caught. He decided to just do it legally ---- he put in his paperwork, came here legally, learned our language, and eventually became a legal citizen.

Today, he's making a great salary and living a good life. No, he's not rich and doesn't have a big house or brand-new car, but he's living HIS American dream and loving it!

True, true.

I agree with PB. We need to secure the borders and the illegals need to be sent back home and return legally if they choose to return.

Everybody wants to sing the blues for these people and how bad they have it in Mexico. Well, do they have it any better here? Being exploited by employers who give them $5 an hour for a job they would have to give an American $15 or $20 an hour for? Living 60 to a 2 bedroom/1 bathroom home? Having to stand outside on street corners waiting to be picked up for work and *hoping* they don't get their asses beat or hoping that, after a 10 or 12 hour day, they get paid? Getting hurt on the job and having no right to disability benefits?

If they came here LEGALLY, they could walk into a construction office, head held high, fill out an application and demand the going rate.

If they came here LEGALLY, they could own a home or rent an apartment for themselves since they would be making a living wage.

If they came here LEGALLY, they could get health insurance, disability insurance, and everything else.

And, no, it is not up to us to improve Mexico. That is up to the Mexican people. When they come here illegally, the first thing they want to do is demand their rights. Well, why don't they take those voices back to Mexico and demand that the government take care of its people?? Demand that their people have rights?

Something has to be done. I shudder to think of what this country is going to be like in 10 or 20 years. At the rate things are going now, it's going to be a very sad situation!

yes, exactly. nobody seems concerned about how the illegals are exploited and abused. they just want them to come here with nobody objecting to their arrival.

well, now that they're here, do any of the illegal supporters give a damn about the exploitation, the abuse? are they DOING anything about it?

securing the borders is as much a protection for them as it is us.

secure it. lock it down. build the wall. give every unemployed person in the country an opportunity to work as a border guard.

quote:

In ten years, we'll all be speaking Spanish. This is the precise problem I foresaw coming over twenty years ago,
In ten years, we'll all be speaking Spanish. This is the precise problem I foresaw coming over twenty years ago,

HAHAHA. YOU my friend are the problem. When you think that all of us speaking Spanish is THE problem. It is the mind set of people like you that are the problem. You have a THEY and U.S. mentality. Why would all of us speaking Spanish be so bad. You same GAME OVER? What game are you reffering to the game where the white people like you and me might lose our control of what "ours". The game where white people TAKE EVERYTHING from EVERYWHERE. IT IS NOT OUR LAND. There is no US and THEM. We are all the same. The people with the money want us to believe that so they can justify WAR. And building fences to keep the wealth in. Fences DO NOT WORK . And by work I mean add to the good of society. They never have they never will!

No matter what side of this contentious issue you're on, I have only one question:

If it were millions upon millions of undocumented AMERICANS flooding into MEXICO looking for jobs and opporunities, I often wonder how Mexicans would react to US illegally entering their country and ignoring their sovereign borders? Would they welcome us with open arms and brotherly love, or would they begin carrying placards, shouting, "YANKEE, GO HOME!!"

I'm not asking for a long-winded treatise of Mexican-American history, I can learn that from a book. Just an honest, direct answer. Would Mexico be happy about millions of Americans invading their country, then DEMANDING that Mexicans pick up the tab to teach us in our own language and provide us jobs, health care, drivers licenses and Social Security checks? Remember, no preaching or philosophy.

I anxiously await your replies.

In fact, illegal immigrants in Mexico are treated so poorly that it's hardly any wonder that Central Americans try to get out of Mexico and into the United States as quickly as possible. At least if they're caught here there's much less of a chance they'll be robbed, raped, beaten or killed.
Wednesday's story said, "Undocumented Central American migrants complain much more about how they are treated by Mexican officials than about authorities on the U.S. side of the border, where migrants may resent being caught but often praise the professionalism of the agents scouring the desert for their trail."
Illegal immigrants from Guatemala and other Central American nations told reporter Mark Stevenson that federal and local police in Mexico would typically take all their money and then set them free.
That extortion and bribery are widespread in Mexico is not news to many Arizonans and certainly not to Mexican citizens. But the news that this parasitic behavior is practiced on helpless migrant workers certainly tends to dilute the moral outrage that Mexico's leaders express when talking about the plight of illegal immigrants in the United States.
On Monday, for example, Mexican Interior Secretary Carlos Abascal declared that, "Mexico is a country with a clear, defined and generous policy toward migrants." Yet the facts indicate that such statements are hollow. Mexico, with a population of 105 million, has legalized only 15,000 immigrants in the past five years, and many undocumented migrants who are detained are deported, the AP reported.

http://www.azstarnet.com/opinion/125360.php

Well, on Mexico's behalf, I'd like to say thank you for "Born in East L.A."
Ciao ciao

quote:

Originally posted by Robert Kim Photography:
No matter what side of this contentious issue you're on, I have only one question:

If it were millions upon millions of undocumented AMERICANS flooding into MEXICO looking for jobs and opporunities, I often wonder how Mexicans would react to US illegally entering their country and ignoring their sovereign borders? Would they welcome us with open arms and brotherly love, or would they begin carrying placards, shouting, "YANKEE, GO HOME!!"

I'm not asking for a long-winded treatise of Mexican-American history, I can learn that from a book. Just an honest, direct answer. Would Mexico be happy about millions of Americans invading their country, then DEMANDING that Mexicans pick up the tab to teach us in our own language and provide us jobs, health care, drivers licenses and Social Security checks? Remember, no preaching or philosophy.

I anxiously await your replies.

They would be PISSED, as we are. They would be WRONG as we are. Why do we not have to take care of our fellow man. Because they were born a few miles south? No!

quote:

Originally posted by Robert Kim Photography:
No matter what side of this contentious issue you're on, I have only one question:

If it were millions upon millions of undocumented AMERICANS flooding into MEXICO looking for jobs and opporunities, I often wonder how Mexicans would react to US illegally entering their country and ignoring their sovereign borders? Would they welcome us with open arms and brotherly love, or would they begin carrying placards, shouting, "YANKEE, GO HOME!!"

I'm not asking for a long-winded treatise of Mexican-American history, I can learn that from a book. Just an honest, direct answer. Would Mexico be happy about millions of Americans invading their country, then DEMANDING that Mexicans pick up the tab to teach us in our own language and provide us jobs, health care, drivers licenses and Social Security checks? Remember, no preaching or philosophy.

I anxiously await your replies.

Also as far as a "long-winded treatise of Mexican-American history". I think that just might come into play here. You know, the history of how this situation came to be. To have a serious discussion, any discussion without speaking of the history behind it is not only a little silly, it's pointless. Would they be pissed if we headed over there in droves, of course. You already know the answer. What people IGNORE, even on this message board is the plain FACT that US businesses, and the US government make it VERY VERY difficult for the poor and working class in Mexico. People ignore the fact that you cant just put up a wall on land you don't own (even if you could own it it was stolen) and say you have to follow our RULES or you can't come over. Oh yeah and by the way we are going to take your resources and money and funnel it back to us making it more difficult to make a living in your own country. Now I would like anyone to address these statements with facts. I know some people like to deal in he-said she-saids but just for the heck of it lets try some facts. Ill start here is a link to a map of Mexico before the war. http://news.webshots.com/photo/2036676010084640614uqddiH

My husband is from Australia and I am too but am also a citizen here due to my father being from Texas. In order to sponsor my husband to get his papers to stay here and get residency and WORK and pay taxes etc, we had to pay thousands of dollars for his papers and then do it again as he fell through the cracks! BUT if he was from south of the border, we would not have had to pay one CENT. Fuck that!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by miss stone:
My husband is from Australia and I am too but am also a citizen here due to my father being from Texas. In order to sponsor my husband to get his papers to stay here and get residency and WORK and pay taxes etc, we had to pay thousands of dollars for his papers and then do it again as he fell through the cracks! BUT if he was from south of the border, we would not have had to pay one CENT. Fuck that!!!!!

I'm sorry for all the money you had to pay for your husband to work. But it blows my mind that your upset because you had to pay so much money for his citizenship, and damn it so should everyone else!!!! Shouldn't you perhaps be upset that it costs ANYTHING to work. Shouldn't we be able to go ANYWHERE we want. Work ANY job we want. I agree that it seems one sided, some people pay and some people don't. I just believe that instead of getting upset with your fellow man about not paying. You should get upset with the system that does the charging. My question to you is. If your husband didn't have to pay would that be better or no?

Listen folks, I am american indian (Shawnee Sept-Kispakotha). NO ONE gave a rats ass what happened to the red man when this "country" was founded, no one cared when our land was divided into little parts, and still, no one cares about us but ourselves. I think, legally, we should be charging taxes on the white man for using our land. I think the white man should be the ones with papers, and be charged with enormous fee's to live here. Miss Stone, I agree with you. Its not right, so all we can do to make ANY difference is contact our delegates and voice our concerns....which we've all done. Nothing's happnening. What does that tell you? Our government doesn't really care! Woohoo. God bless America.

Native Americans have always been the most maligned, mistreated, disrespected and ripped-off race of human beings on the North American continent. Any discussion of "Who got here first?" wouldn't be "fair and balanced" without their inclusion, their long and storied history, and their ongoing plight.

It's interesting (and shameful) to note that AMERICA HAS NEVER HONORED EVEN ONE, SINGLE TREATY WITH ANY AMERICAN INDIAN TRIBE SINCE EUROPEAN SETTLERS LANDED ON PLYMOUTH ROCK (I think the saying, "Plymouth Rock landed on the INDIANS..." makes the point perfectly). What a legacy.

If any people have the right to protest us destroying their civilization and invading and stealing their lands, it's certainly the Native Americans.

quote:

Originally posted by Zenial:

quote:

Originally posted by miss stone:
My husband is from Australia and I am too but am also a citizen here due to my father being from Texas. In order to sponsor my husband to get his papers to stay here and get residency and WORK and pay taxes etc, we had to pay thousands of dollars for his papers and then do it again as he fell through the cracks! BUT if he was from south of the border, we would not have had to pay one CENT. Fuck that!!!!!

I'm sorry for all the money you had to pay for your husband to work. But it blows my mind that your upset because you had to pay so much money for his citizenship, and damn it so should everyone else!!!! Shouldn't you perhaps be upset that it costs ANYTHING to work. Shouldn't we be able to go ANYWHERE we want. Work ANY job we want. I agree that it seems one sided, some people pay and some people don't. I just believe that instead of getting upset with your fellow man about not paying. You should get upset with the system that does the charging. My question to you is. If your husband didn't have to pay would that be better or no?

Did you READ, man? He fell through the cracks and they lost all his details etc. We had to start over and PAY THOUSANDS all OVER AGAIN! And yeah, he should not have to pay! He is a hard-working, high tax-paying ASSET to this place. And now after seeing what this country spends its money on, I get even more irate when I think about our situation. YEAH!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by avidactor:
Listen folks, I am american indian (Shawnee Sept-Kispakotha). NO ONE gave a rats ass what happened to the red man when this "country" was founded, no one cared when our land was divided into little parts, and still, no one cares about us but ourselves. I think, legally, we should be charging taxes on the white man for using our land. I think the white man should be the ones with papers, and be charged with enormous fee's to live here. Miss Stone, I agree with you. Its not right, so all we can do to make ANY difference is contact our delegates and voice our concerns....which we've all done. Nothing's happnening. What does that tell you? Our government doesn't really care! Woohoo. God bless America.

I care about the Indians. Always have.....

quote:

Originally posted by miss stone:

quote:

Originally posted by Zenial:

quote:

Originally posted by miss stone:
My husband is from Australia and I am too but am also a citizen here due to my father being from Texas. In order to sponsor my husband to get his papers to stay here and get residency and WORK and pay taxes etc, we had to pay thousands of dollars for his papers and then do it again as he fell through the cracks! BUT if he was from south of the border, we would not have had to pay one CENT. Fuck that!!!!!

I'm sorry for all the money you had to pay for your husband to work. But it blows my mind that your upset because you had to pay so much money for his citizenship, and damn it so should everyone else!!!! Shouldn't you perhaps be upset that it costs ANYTHING to work. Shouldn't we be able to go ANYWHERE we want. Work ANY job we want. I agree that it seems one sided, some people pay and some people don't. I just believe that instead of getting upset with your fellow man about not paying. You should get upset with the system that does the charging. My question to you is. If your husband didn't have to pay would that be better or no?

Did you READ, man? He fell through the cracks and they lost all his details etc. We had to start over and PAY THOUSANDS all OVER AGAIN! And yeah, he should not have to pay! He is a hard-working, high tax-paying ASSET to this place. And now after seeing what this country spends its money on, I get even more irate when I think about our situation. YEAH!!!!

I'm confused it sounds like you're agreeing with me? But you're asking if I READ? I said I am sorry for all the money you had to spend. Then you said you had to pay THOUSANDS ALL OVER AGAIN. Where in my retort do I not state my understanding of your situation? IT SUCKS. IT SHOULD NOT HAPPEN. You say he should not have to pay again. I said he should not have to pay AT ALL. Why are you fighting me? My point is that your mad at "people south of the border" because
they don't have to do you you say you should not have to do . I don't get it. Why are you upset with Mexicans?

Its crazy, we have a receptionist here who is legally a French citizen. For some reason, her family isn't allowed to be nationalized. She's been living in the US for about 8 years. She has to renew her Visa over and over again, and she has to pay fees to live and work here. She also has to pay additional costs to go to school. She also has to have unnecessary vaccinations at the gov't discretion which costs even more money! Her family has spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on the american gov't, and they still don't get enough respect to be considered american citizens. I mean, hey, Im not a fan of the French, but Im not a fan of robbing them either.