Im bumping this for a couple reasons:
1) Its a pertinent issue for all entertainers

2) It shows that Deadbeat talks in circles on issues that have meaning.

Let's discuss McCain's standpoint, as a presidential candidate:

He does not wish any further investigation into 9/11. He says all who disagree with the official commision report is being extremely disprectful to the families of the ones who died in the attacks, yet most of the families who have had a loved one die in the attacks are the ones who wish to further the investigation. He claims he has further proof that states the commission report is 100% accurate...but he denies to release this information to the public, which is a direct breach of disclosure to the US public. This man has lied about so many things, its a wonder how he can get away with even RUNNING for presidency!

Avid, you are a nut. Sorry dude, but it's true. Loose Change has been debunked all over the net. You are a partisan kookoo. You have Bush Derangement Syndrome.

Israel and the Neocons went after Iraq, but they certainly had nothing to do with 9/11. Israel was pissed about Saddam writing checks to suicide bombers' families. Also, Saddam had threatened to start trading oil in Euros and that pissed off the money men as well, because such things destabilize the dollar.

As to a government wide 9/11 conspiracy, anybody with half a brain can see that it would mean THOUSANDS of people had to be involved, including the media. Bush can't even pronounce the word "nuclear," yet you award him with the God like intelligence it would take to pull off such a caper.

Oh, and by the way, I did see that retarded "documentary." Anybody who has ever edited film or TV knows what can be done in terms of computer graphics and alterations.

You need to chill out and stop trying to shove your stupid agenda down everybody's throat.

It's BORING.

Bill Clinton even denounced the 9/11 truthers as kooks.
Frontline had a segment called "Bush's War," wherein it detailed the fact that there is plenty to blame Bush for without making shit up.

There is damning information about the attack on Pearl Harbor (which precipitated our entrance into World War II), that is only now being released to to the American public due to the Freedom of Information Act, which allows high-level government documents to be opened to the public FIFTY YEARS LATER, AFTER ALL PRINCIPALS INVOLVED IN ANY DISPUTED INCIDENTS ARE LONG DEAD.

One of these documents was a letter from the base commander at Pearl Harbor, who expressed his "strong belief" that, "we would be attacked by Japan, on or about December 1, 1944, on a Sunday, probably early in the morning." America was attacked EXACTLY ONE WEEK LATER -- SUNDAY, DECEMBER THE 7, 1944, EARLY IN THE MORNING, BY WELL-TRAINED JAPANESE PILOTS. NEARLY TWO THOUSAND INNOCENT AMERICANS DIED ON THAT DAY. EVERY AMERICAN JOINED THE WAR AGAINST JAPAN AND GERMANY ON THAT SAME DAY. IN THIS SAME DOCUMENT, THEN-PRESIDENT FRANKLIN D. ROOSEVELT TOLD THE BASE COMMANDER AT PEARL TO, "STAND DOWN -- DO NOTHING. ALLOW JAPAN TO ATTACK US FIRST." THAT DOCUMENT WAS THE BEGINNING OF WORLD WAR TWO.

ON SEPTEMBER 11, 2OO1, DURING GEORGE W. BUSH'S WATCH, THE TWIN TOWERS OF NEW YORK CITY WERE ATTACKED AND DESTROYED BY WELL-TRAINED EQYPTIAN PILOTS, AFTER GEORGE W.BUSH KNOWINGLY WITHHELD INFORMATION DESCRIBING JUST SUCH AN ATTACK BY, "AL QAEDA OPERATIVES TRAINED IN AIRLINE HIGH JACKING." NEARLY TWO THOUSAND INNOCENT AMERICANS DIED ON THAT DAY. NOT LONG AFTER, PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH AUTHORIZED WAR ON IRAQ, WHOSE THEN-PRESIDENT SADDAM HUSSEIN THREATENED OUR OIL INTERESTS THERE. THERE WERE NO IRAQIS ON THOSE AIRPLANES.

Similarly, the secret information currently being held by the United States government on the Kennedy assassinations will eventually be released to the American public FIFTY YEARS LATER, LONG AFTER ALL PRINCIPALS INVOLVED IN ANY DISPUTED INCIDENTS ARE LONG DEAD. Neat.

And no,'Knowngangbanger,' I'm not, "MAKING THIS SHIT UP." ' This isn't "conspiracy," this is FACT.

Am I suggesting something like U.S. government involvement here? I'll let you determine that.

Who knows how far down the rabbit holes goes?

quote:

Originally posted by Knowngangmember:
Avid, you are a nut. Sorry dude, but it's true. Loose Change has been debunked all over the net If all accurate and plausible "debunking" against loose change is out there, please cite references...and don't even think about using that stupid popular mechanics article!. You are a partisan kookoo. You have Bush Derangement Syndrome.

Israel and the Neocons went after Iraq, but they certainly had nothing to do with 9/11. Israel was pissed about Saddam writing checks to suicide bombers' families. Also, Saddam had threatened to start trading oil in Euros and that pissed off the money men as well, because such things destabilize the dollar. And in the overall picture of this paragraph...(which wasn't at all what I was getting at) haven't you noticed the american dollar hasn't been stable since Bush stepped into office? So is this a way of saying "it backfired anyway?"

As to a government wide 9/11 conspiracy, anybody with half a brain can see that it would mean THOUSANDS of people had to be involved, including the media. Bush can't even pronounce the word "nuclear," yet you award him with the God like intelligence it would take to pull off such a caper. First of all, I award Bush with no such title. He's a baffoon. Its not just bush, its the whole ADMINISTRATION. And nah, it wouldn't have had to take thousands of people to be a part of this whole deal. Im not claiming Bush was the only culprit. He's only part of coverup. At no point did I ever insist that he was the sole propreitor of this staged event.

Oh, and by the way, I did see that retarded "documentary." Anybody who has ever edited film or TV knows what can be done in terms of computer graphics and alterations. Would it be fair to say that even the government can engage in such a practice?

You need to chill out and stop trying to shove your stupid agenda down everybody's throat. I have no agenda, other than knowing the truth. And it would be ignorant for one to want anything other than that, wouldn't you say? Do you honestly believe the 9/11 commission report? And honestly, it seems like you are just boring yourself. I mean, you just wanna be spoonfed whatever fox news tells you, and you're ok with that? Really? I mean, I understand stupidity breeds in this nation, and lethargy is our number one problem, but doesn't the evidence show that we need a change? Bush represents all that is ignorant, all that is pathetic with the world we live in. He spent 20% of his time in office, in his ranch in Texas! Not the actions of a man in charge of a nation. Clearly not the actions of a man who cares about "homeland security", or "the war on terror". Have you ever looked at the over all picture of anything in your life? We never would've been in this situation if we didn't go to Afghanistan in the mid 70's. We had to show Russia our balls were bigger than their's. So now we ended up in this situation. Im not saying it was perpetuated by GW Bush, but he made billions off of it, so he's equally a terrorist in my book.

It's BORING.

knowngangmember, you know I appreciate your posts, but I have to disagree with you with all of this. I am a non-partisan actually. I never voted. I never even registered to vote. I know this may sound wrong, but it is what it is. I look at the facts. In my opinion, this country was raped of its integrity the moment white people set foot on its shores. Till this day no treaty from the white man has ever been fully honored. I don't fully trust ANY politician, but I can see a rotten man as plain as day. And the Bush Administration is full of them.

maybe, but that doesn't mean he killed 3,000 people, after all that's what your saying, right?
Did R Ragan kill my best friend on pan am too?

quote:

Originally posted by emmyaward4:
maybe, but that doesn't mean he killed 3,000 people, after all that's what your saying, right?
Did R Ragan kill my best friend on pan am too?

BUSH'S ILLEGAL AND NONSENSICAL WARS OF AGGRESSION DIDN'T KILL THOUSANDS OF INNOCENT PEOPLE.

THEY KILLED MILLIONS OF INNOCENT PEOPLE.

AS THEY CONTINUE TO SPILL THEIR BLOOD IN THE SANDS OF IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN, ON BOTH SIDES, ASK YOURSELF THIS:
WAS IT WORTH IT? WHO BENEFITED THE MOST BY IT? AND, WOULD YOU SACRIFICE YOURSELF, YOUR SPOUSE, YOUR SIBLINGS AND YOUR PARENTS FOR IT?

YOU'RE RIGHT, AVID. ALL THIS RHETORIC IS GETTING BORING. THIS OBSCENE WAR FOR OIL MUST END.

NOW.

The 9/11 truth movement is an embarrassment to all thinking liberals, and that is why Clinton denounced it.

I marched against the war in the first big march down Hollywood Blvd.

However, common sense tells you that if there was ANY truth to the Loose Change allegations, Bush would not only have been impeached but would be in prison right now.

These allegations are just silly, and believe me, they are absolutely motivated by partisan politics.

To be honest, I am shocked than educated people could be taken in by this stuff. Teenagers believe this stuff, but I wouldn't expect grownups to be taken in.

Like I said before, Bush has made plenty of REAL mistakes without inventing fake ones.

And Avid, your comment about white people certainly puts a taint on anything you might have to say. In other words, a comment like that reveals an agenda of some kind, and sounds rather racist.

In any case, Bush will be out of there soon, so much of this discussion is purely academic.

I'm feeling a little bit left out of this discussion.

So far, NO ONE on this entire board has had the courage or integrity to disagree with a single one of my claims, and that's what worries me. I'm a college drop-out, and yet there is no one in cyberspace who can give a headshot photographer even a little bit of a challenge? How about an Iraq war vet, or someone with some fancy degrees behind their name?? I'm not a rocket scientist -- WHERE ARE YOU???

I can only assume by your total silence that you either fully agree with my posts, or have no counter arguments with which to prove my statements inaccurate or untrue.

That's a pretty sad commentary on your Right Wing Conservative, pro-Bush values, isn't it?

quote:

Originally posted by Knowngangmember:
The 9/11 truth movement is an embarrassment to all thinking liberals, and that is why Clinton denounced it. Clinton saying it wasn't an inside job is not proof. Can you PROVE it wasn't an inside job?

I marched against the war in the first big march down Hollywood Blvd.

However, common sense tells you that if there was ANY truth to the Loose Change allegations, Bush would not only have been impeached but would be in prison right now. You cannot impeach a president based on allegations. Get smart. They ARE building a case. It is going to take a great deal of time because the official 9/11 report is so full of holes, it will take a long time to get through the garbage thats within its pages.

These allegations are just silly, and believe me, they are absolutely motivated by partisan politics. I think the motivation is much bigger than politics. Much bigger.

To be honest, I am shocked than educated people could be taken in by this stuff. Teenagers believe this stuff, but I wouldn't expect grownups to be taken in. I expect grown ups to question authority when it puts on the face of absolutism.

Like I said before, Bush has made plenty of REAL mistakes without inventing fake ones. No one said this mistake was fake. In fact, it was very real.

And Avid, your comment about white people certainly puts a taint on anything you might have to say. In other words, a comment like that reveals an agenda of some kind, and sounds rather racist. This is funny. Well, I speak in facts. I don't speak in spoonfed bs. If you want to believe in the easter bunny and Santa claus go ahead. I like to live in reality. As far as the comment on "whitey", its an overall opinion I've gathered based on facts. White man brought guns into this country. White man brought disease into this country. White man brought pollution into this country. White man brought over-population into this country. White man brought mass-market slavery into this country. White man brought the idea of rich and poor into this country. Um, I'm standing by my word. This is not speculation. This is not meant for an agenda. Its truth. Its fact. It is not racist. IT IS FACT. So, what is your agenda? To hop online and tell people they're stupid for seeking facts? Like I said before: cite real references if you want to tell us something plausible. You answered NONE of my questions for the earlier post. This leads me to believe you have no answers. You keep saying that anyone who believes differently than what's in the commission report is wrong...but you give no concrete evidence. Why?

In any case, Bush will be out of there soon, so much of this discussion is purely academic.

So again, you've showed up, acting as if you're above and better than those who think differently than what the Bush Administration gave us, and yet, you still have yet to give ANY proof that what you say is right. Answer my questions! Sheesh, talk about childish!

By the way, Robert, your posts rock my friend! But, the majority of the hijackers were saudi's.

I relate Egyptians so much with Saudi independence that sometimes I confuse the two! Arab nations are intensely proud of of their vastly different histories and self-governance, and rightfully so.

Good call and thanks for noticing, Avid.

This movement has about as much traction as The Flat Earth Society.

Think it through. If the claims are true, then why is the filmmaker still alive? If the government
orchestrated the murder of 3000 civilians, what's to stop them from killing a low budget filmmaker?

Your hate has you all twisted up to where you'll believe anything...

quote:

Originally posted by Knowngangmember:
This movement has about as much traction as The Flat Earth Society.

Think it through. If the claims are true, then why is the filmmaker still alive? If the government
orchestrated the murder of 3000 civilians, what's to stop them from killing a low budget filmmaker?

Your hate has you all twisted up to where you'll believe anything...

Wow, thats your rebuttal?! man, I thought youd have more respect for yourself than that

Here, I've got an answer for you. It wouldn't make them rich to kill him!
And listen, I don't hate Bush. Im sure if he were never president, I would love to party with the guy. I find his presidency was a disgrace to the united states. Its not that I hate him, I have no respect for him, thats all. And I have no respect for anyone who wishes to continue a war for no reason. I have no respect for anyone who cares more about lining his/her pockets than the interest and well-being of the people he represents. Period.

Alas, Avid, here is one point where we differ.

I HATE BUSH.

I hate anyone who through his lies, deceit and outright deception led us into an illegal and immoral war. Worst of all -- a war without end. And who wins? No one. Who picks up the trillion dollar tab? We do. Not a pleasant trade-off, by anyone's reckoning.

Vincent Bugliosi, the former District Attorney of Los Angeles who successfully prosecuted Charles Manson, just completed a book that
outlines his plan to, TRY GEORGE W. BUSH IN FEDERAL COURT FOR MURDER. He said that impeachment would have no effect on him whatsoever, and as his terms are nearly over that impeachment is not sufficient or equal punishment for someone directly responsible for the deaths of so many innocent people. He said that if were to prosecute on the evidence he has already amassed today, he'd win.

And on the issue of NON-PARTISANSHIP, it is interesting to note that Mr. Bugliosi is a Democrat, yet voted for John McCain in 2000, making his position a purely legal one, without political implications for candidates of any affiliation.

No, Mr. Bush has lost far more than simply my respect. He's lost America's respect in the entire world.