 |
BACK STAGE MESSAGE BOARD Please register and login to post. |
|
Go
 |
New
|
Find
|
Notify
|
Tools
|
Reply
|
|
Nicholas Cage |
Another wonderful thing to think about, I know I made a mistake, it was, of course, four planes that were hijacked, and only three of them made their target. The fourth one was taken over by the passengers...and they were able to make phones calls on their cell phones. Next time you're on a plane, see if you get service at over 20,000 feet. Makes ya wonder where those calls were actually coming from>
|
|||
|
Russell Crowe |
Dear Readers,
First, again, I have no opinion about the truth of the claims in these films. I just feel convinced we should watch them. I discovered last night that there are more than one Loose Change film about 9/11. Some of the most shocking information is on the "2nd edition," not the "final cut." I would strongly advise watching both the 2nd edition AND Final Cut. They are VERY different from one another. The "2nd edition" is 1 hour 29 minutes long. The "Final Cut" is 2 hours 09 minutes long. That's how you'll know if you are watching the complete versions -- again, these are different films -- you should watch both. For those of you who haven't watched any of these films yet, consider this: How does a 757 airplane make only a 16 foot hole in the Pentagon and leave NO landing gear, pieces of wing, tail section or engines? Never in the history of aviation has an airplane obliterated itself upon impact. Why did the FBI confiscate all films of the Pentagon attack and only release footage that does NOT show any airplane hitting the building? There may be explanations for this. Do you have them? I don't...at least yet. This is among the highly bizarre evidence in these films that we don't know the whole truth about these issues. Again, as actors, we have the obligation to consider multiple sides of ANY issue that has significance like 9/11. Watch the film Loose Change -- "2nd edition" -- AND "Final Cut" edition. They are two different films. Those who have watched these films already are amazed. I'm getting lots of emails... FOLLOW THESE INSTRUCTIONS EXACTLY TO SEE THE CORRECT VERSIONS: Go here: http://loosechange911.com/videos.shtml DO NOT PRESS ANY OF THE BUTTONS AT THE TOP. Simply SCROLL DOWN to the 2nd edition and click play. Then, SCROLL DOWN to the final cut and press play. If you press any of the buttons at the top of the page, it will screw you up. Again, just go to the LINK and SCROLL DOWN AND PRESS PLAY. Do not click on the links at the top of the page. They seem to be screwed up. - Jason Bennett |
|||
|
|
Nicholas Cage |
These films have been around for a while. They are very insightful, and make many valid points. The Final cut was supposed to make it to the big screen. Its amazing how much manipulating goes on within the media! This is a must see for all actors!
|
|||
|
|
Glenn Close |
I find it "interesting" how we managed to find Saddam and his two sons so quickly, dispatching the unholy trio one-two-three, but have yet to find Osama Bin Laden.
Even with the combined resources of the worldwide intelligence network, satellite tracking technology, a ten million dollar bounty and the entire United States military with thousands of boots on the ground, we still cannot seem to find one, 6'4" Muslim cleric? How many people realize that George Bush Sr. has done business with the entire Bin Laden clan for generations, or that the entire family was granted free passage anywhere in the world on the very day of the attack on the World Trade Center? Or that Bush Senior actually thought of inviting the entire Taliban hierarchy to his ranch in Chester, Texas for a "down home" BBQ to discuss the possibility of building a pipeline for Exxon from Afghanistan to the Caspian Sea? Or that Condaleeza Rice had an entire Exxon oil tanker named after her, only to respectfully decline their "generous offer" when hundreds of bloggers went ballistic at the news? Or that the entire flight crew of terrorists on 9/11 were from Saudi Arabia, not Iraq? Or that Bin Ladin isn't even from Afghanistan, but from Yemen? Or that he made a cool TWO HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS on the day of September 11th when he sold his shares of American Airlines short on September the 10th? Or that the ex-head of the Federal Reserve Bank, Alan Greenspan, stated openly in his autobiography: "Everybody knows that the invasion of Iraq was all about oil"? The fact is, we needed a REASON to invade Iraq. Osama Bin Laden unwittingly provided us that reason. |
|||
|
|
Kevin Bacon |
Benzhar Bhutto(sp) pubilicly said bin laden was dead the day before she was assasinated. All reports are that he has been dead for some time and all videos after 2001 of him have been proven fakes.
Oh and the FBI has dropped the charges against bin laden for 911 by the way. Check out there website. |
|||
|
|
Glenn Close |
I've heard that.
But alive or dead, it still dovetails with George Dubya's war policies perfectly. As long as we THINK he's alive we keep the fear of terrorism alive, and funding to Iraq flowing. As far as his followers are concerned, if we assassinated him publicly we would have created a martyr, elevating him to saint status within the entire Al Qaeda network. Either way, he's served his purpose. He got us into Iraq. The further you go up the rabbit hole, the more it stinks. |
|||
|
|
Nicholas Cage |
jseymour, do you actually believe that to be true? If indeed he was killed, don't you think there would be some public display of it? Don't you think america would be rubbing it in the face of the Taliban and other religious factions? Trust me, the media has manipulated the thought of the public for years. And in all honesty, the "hunt for bin laden" is a dead issue anyway. Whether or not he is or isn't alive doesn't matter in the current situation. What DOES matter (in terms of this topic) is how such an event was allowed to happen. As one of the biggest world powers, the American government has a responsibility to protect its citizens. On that day, they did not. During the Hurricane Katrina catastrophe, the state and federal government sat around and waited for people to die off before they made any major actions. It is a question of executive responsiblity. Our government is worried more about covering up messes than actually fixing them. Bush wanted to cover up the problems of his business partners, and make a perfect scapegoat at the same time. 9/11 was his perfect storm. Not only can he get away with mass murder, but he can make a serious profit by it. I ask this question again. Who IN THIS ENTIRE WORLD profited from 9/11? The American people? Well, lets see. Our Bush administration began Homeland Security which had branching laws that smacked american rights directly in the face. Anyone could be monitored, racial profiling became an acceptable occurance (not that it wasnt around before but now we actually WELCOMED it), and because of it, taxes were inflated. And of course, there was the Patriot act, that really took away our rights as Americans and as Human Beings. So at first, our rights were stolen from us. Next, we have a war to fund. First, we take out Iraq. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. But there were weaopns of mass destruction!! Riigght. This was an exuse for Bush to gain control of oil in the middle east. So what happens? Oil prices go up! Now the American people have no rights, and they are losing money. Stocks drop significantly, and the economy is slowly grinding to an inevitable halt. So, we can't say the American public is feeling the sunshine of 9/11. How about militant rebel factions in the middle east? Hezbollah, Al Queada, taliban, etc.? Well, none of them have prospered either. They are no stronger than they were before the attack, and in fact, now they are more splintered and disorganized. Their leadership has been hiding and control has been dispersed to low ranking militia who are best suited for martyrdom assignments. In essence, they are carrying out their own gihad with less systematic precision, and more rogue style operations. Because of the attacks, they have no formal leadership, and their agenda is scattered. Saddam Hussein? uh, no, he didn't benefit. Isreal? Since 9/11 the attacks on the state's soil have become more violent, and more active. Isreal's only defense at this point is to ally with US. Now, Lets talk about BUSH: Lets forget about details. Here, research: Halliburton Bliar Petrolium Stanley Hilton zionist movement. I could go on for days with Bush's affiliation with what happened. Here's a fun bit of info: "I was not involved in the September 11 attacks in the United States nor did I have knowledge of the attacks. There exists a government within a government within the United States. The United States should try to trace the perpetrators of these attacks within itself; to the people who want to make the present century a century of conflict between Islam and Christianity. That secret government must be asked as to who carried out the attacks." Osama Bin Laden |
|||
|
|
Morgan Freeman |
I only watched about 10 minutes of the 1st film, so I'm not going to say anything because 10 minutes isn't enough to formulate an opinion.
But I wanted to respond to the person (I forget who posted it) who asked WHY this film is relevant to acting. I'm from the Philadelphia area and still subscribe to the Philly theater list serve, which has been overrun with political discussions. Someone wrote that the list serve had become a joke since it had turned so political. Here was my response. I think this list serve still is great! I no longer live in the Philadelphia area, but I entertain the thought of moving back now and then, which is why I still subscribe to this list serve. As an actor, it is my job to be aware of what's going on in the world, to have a strong point of view and be willing to fight for it. Otherwise, I may as well get off the stage because I have nothing to say and nothing to fight for. I can't think of any great play where characters aren't fighting for something they believe in, whether it's love, freedom, justice, a job, a home, etc. If you have no interest in fighting for anything, then you may as well exit the stage because there will be no depth or excitement to your acting. Every character is fighting for something. Good playwrights don't write casual stories of insignificant events; they choose significant topics and events to educate their audiences, to provoke their thoughts, to give them a cathartic experience. I saw a production of Lanford Wilson's "5th of July" last weekend in NYC. Not one of the actors was fighting for anything. They managed to take a story of significance and reduce it to idle chat, where nothing happened for 2 hours on stage! Talk about mind numbing! They could have used this list serve to light a fire under their butts and stir up their desire to fight for what they wanted. God knows the characters they were portraying were certainly fighting for something. While I agree that politics can be a tiring topic, it's an essential element within art. It can be especially tiring when it seems like you can't get your point across to someone, but I believe that a person's politics reflect the events that have shaped his or her life. No two lives are alike, hence the difference in personal beliefs and philosophies. So, that's how I justify discussing politics on a board for actors. I may not agree with someone's post, I may not understand someone's post, but I try to figure out why the person believes what he or she believes. And I'm always willing to consider someone's viewpoint, though I am more inclined to consider it when it's written clearly and has evidence to support it. |
|||
|
|
Morgan Freeman |
I do have something to say. I find it amazing that Americans are constantly complaining about how Iraq is all about oil and how much the war costs, but so few are willing to give up their cars, reduce their consumption, or adjust their lives in order to become less reliant on oil. Gas prices have been rising steadily the past few years, but that didn't prevent people from buying brand new homes in developments that have contributed to suburban sprawl, increasing the distances that people have to drive. If they did exercise some forethought or made some changes in their comsumption, they would have far less to complain about.
I'll also say that over the past few years, I've developed an overall lack of trust for all media, which is why I didn't watch more than 10 minutes of the conspiracy theory film Jason posted. I don't trust Fox, CNN, NBC, or any other channel for that matter. They're all biased, all have their own agendas, and spin stories whichever way suits their needs. Several years ago, my mother listened to Dick Cheney reveal declassified information regarding Iraq's chemical warfare. An Iraqi scientist, who was employed by Saddam Hussein to develop chemical warfare, turned over his creation to our military. WHY DIDN'T THIS INFORMATION MAKE EVEN A BLIP ON THE NEWS?! We're allegedly in Iraq for their WMD's, so why didn't any of the news channels cover this story? As long as it's declassified information, the American people have a right to know. Classified information, on the other hand, is another story. Fox news presents pro-war coverage in Iraq while CNN presents anti-war coverage. Neither covers both; covering both angles would be fair and balanced. I've found that soldiers who've served in Iraq have conflicting stories. Some of my brothers' friends have been over there and believe we have every right to be there and feel as though they're really helping people. They've said the Iraqis are welcoming and that it was nowhere near as awful as CNN reports. Then there's my former roommate's boyfriend, who has served in Iraq and Afghanistan and feels we have no business being in Iraq, but he supports our presence in Afghanistan. It's all in your perspective, which is why I won't rely completely upon any media source's opinion and what they want to sell me. I may or may not finish watching Loose Change because the evidence they presented just isn't substantial enough to me. I want physicists with PhDs and university affiliation commenting on this alleged evidence. Simply saying that "Boeing no longer reveals what their planes are made of" is somehow conspiratorial is an absolute joke, but they tried to spin it as conspiratorial evidence. I also want a chemist with a PhD and university affiliation to tell me about titanium's melting point and how it's not scientifically possible for titanium to vaporize, not some narrator reading from a script who sounds uneducated. I just can't buy the theory otherwise. Also, I just can't fathom any reason why Bush and Cheney -- two Republicans -- would be behind the destruction of Wall Street. Doesn't that seem un-Republican? Doesn't that sound counterproductive? Somehow, I don't think Bush is responsible for every single thing that gets pegged to him. That's not to say he hasn't made huge mistakes, but it's getting ridiculous that absolutely everything wrong is his fault. It's funny how Bush has been crucified for invading Iraq after the two previous presidents had problems with Iraq. Clinton realized Iraq was threatening us and retaliated, yet he wasn't crucified in the media for attacking Iraq. Like I said, I may or may not finish watching the films, but I have a very difficult time believing the American government would create such a problem for itself when there were so many more issues that needed to be addressed in 2001. |
|||
|
|
Kevin Bacon |
Well this will be the last post from me on this subject because I have seen to many other places get so bad that it completely ruined the forum. Here's a link to Bhutto's comment on Bin Laden on the BBC. It's the first I found and there are better ones out there but here it is. http://208.65.153.238/watch?v=UnychOXj9Tg And no I don't think they would tell us if he was dead or parade him around. Our goverment would loose power over the people if they did. The death of Saddam Hussien made most americans think the job is done, lets go home, not what they wanted. How could you justify staying in afghanastan if Bin Laden is dead? As for the FBI charges go to there website. I did. Sure enough there are no charges for 911. There are for other things like the USS Cole and other terrorists attacks. All the Bin Laden tapes were from an intelligence company that was a private contractor that happened to be owned by Donald Rumsfield. There are many places on the net you can go and they will show you using facial recongnition software, and old clips from the 90's that show the voice was dubbed over and old tape and made into a new tape. After it was questioned about Donald Rumsfield owning the company and proving the tapes to be false a new intelligence contractor has taken over the job, and surprise we now have a new Bin Laden tape. As far as the loose change video, some things have been proven to not be accurate. It took me several times to watch it in the past because it dripped with so much vile and venom and hatred for bush and company that it quickly turned into another piece of propaganda and has such, lost any intrest from me. Some points are valid, and if they would please just show me them and keep there comments to them selves it might actually start to make a difference. |
|||
|
|
Russell Crowe |
Dear Katie,
I'm rather disappointed in your posts. In your first, you state a philosophy about the role of actors in our society that I agree with and that I teach. But then you dismiss the 3.5 hours of films after watching 10 minutes, and offer your uninformed opinion about the matter. It's very disappointing. I urge you to reconsider and to walk your talk. Watch the 2nd edition. The first 10 minutes is nothing. Come on...really... And um...Katie? Guess what...if you believe the official version of what happened on 9/11, YOU ARE A CONSPIRACY THEORIST. You believe that 19 Arabs formed a conspiracy to fly planes into the buildings with box-cutters. You believe no military planes were able to stop them with an hour of planes being off-course, when in the past military planes intercept off-course planes within 20 minutes. You believe Al Qaeda coordinated it from caves. You believe we can't find Osama Bin Laden. Even though he denied Al Qaeda's roles in 9/11 on four videos, you believe he did it anyway. You believe a 757 disintegrated and left almost no trace of itself (no wings, no tail section, no cockpit, no engines!!! no landing gear) and made only a 16 foot hole in the pentagon!!!!!!!!(planes don't disintegrate upon crashing). You believe this even though the FBI won't release any videos they confiscated, to show what hit the pentagon. You believe a plane flew at 500 mph into the pentagon, and didn't do ANY damage to the lawn a feet below it. You believe both world trade centers, after burning about 60 minutes, disintegrated in 10 seconds (only controlled demolition causes buildings to FREE FALL in 10 seconds, symmetrically like that, and NO steel structure EVER collapsed from fire before....110 stories in 10 seconds???????? That's free fall, not structural failure). This is why there are organizations of physicists, engineers, and pilots who say we don't know what really happened. It's why 50% of New Yorkers don't think we know fully what happened. It's why most of the world thinks it was an inside job. It's what Al Qaeda even said. And we went after Saddam Hussein and haven't found Osama. Katie, I'm not going to argue the issues until you watch the movie....watch it. Or don't post your opinions about it. And don't claim to be informed about this kind of issue, with all due respect. Currently, you have no idea what you are talking about. I wouldn't have been impressed by 10 minutes either. I've now watched both movies about 3 times. I'm virtually memorizing the arguments. THEN I WILL LOOK FOR THINGS TO DISPROVE THEM. That's how my process for critically examining these issues. Take a look at the movie... - Jason |
|||
|
|
Nicholas Cage |
If there is one thing I've learned about message boards it is that threads are messy, uncontrollable things.
|
|||
|
|
Russell Crowe |
I'm telling you it is all stallone and some a list friends of his.
|
|||
|
|
Nicholas Cage |
It is true that some of the information in loose change is debunked. Most of it is not. What was debunked still doesn't clearly disprove the most convincing elements of the film, which is the fact that 9/11 was an inside job. |
|||
|
|
Morgan Freeman |
Jason,
You teach your students to capture their audiences upon taking stage, not several lines or minutes into the show. Loose Change failed to capture my attention, which is one of the reasons I didn't watch more than 10 minutes of it. Another is that the narrarator sounds like a moron. I'm sorry, but I need to listen to someone who sounds slightly more intelligent if I'm going to spend my time pondering what he's offering as truth. Like I said in my above post, I want a scientist with a PhD and university affiliation explaining the scientific aspects of 9-11 to me, because I have no idea where these people are getting their information! Just because they say it doesn't mean it's true. Part of my process for thinking critically involves looking at the source and considering their agenda. The agenda of these filmmakers was so anti-Bush and was even reminiscent of Michael Moore, which is another reason I turned it off. Like I said in my previous post, I question the idea of the Bush administration being behind 9-11 because destroying Wall Street seems very un-Republican. And being in office during hard economic times isn't exactly the best way to get re-elected. With all due respect, Jason, I don't know where you get your numbers: "It's why 50% of New Yorkers don't think we know fully what happened. It's why most of the world thinks it was an inside job. It's what Al Qaeda even said." Who conducted the poll that came up with the numbers regarding the 50% of New Yorkers who don't think we fully know what happened? And who decided most of the world thinks it was an inside job? And who cares what Al Qaeda said? They're not exactly kind, truthful people, now are they? You believe both world trade centers, after burning about 60 minutes, disintegrated in 10 seconds (only controlled demolition causes buildings to FREE FALL in 10 seconds, symmetrically like that, and NO steel structure EVER collapsed from fire before....110 stories in 10 seconds???????? That's free fall, not structural failure). I understand what you're getting at, but when else has a 110 story steel building been struck by an airplane? Was there another building to compare this fall to? I have a very busy week this week, but maybe I'll find time to watch Loose Change, though I admit it won't be at the top of my list of things to do. |
|||
|
|
Russell Crowe |
After you inform yourself by watching by the video or reading a book by one of the scholars, I want to hear your opinion. Not until then. Because without you being educated, you're ignorant and a typical internet opinion spurter. Come on Katie, watch it even if it makes you uncomfortable. Watch it, it isn't about politics...Listen...even if it's hard...Come on...do it...It's hard...Be open...This is a huge thing to ask. I understand. It's huge. You can do it.
And by the way, they don't say it was Bush in the videos, you'd know if you watched. They just don't believe we know the truth. And their evidence should be experienced soon...Who cares if you like their voice? Think on your own!...about their arguments...and evidence... If you don't like their production values, I understand...But watch it anyway. Constructions values aren't how YOU should inform yourself, as an actor. Watch it anyway. Watch both movies. Then, talk to us. - Jason |
|||
|
|
Russell Crowe |
Also, good question about specifics. The 50% was a a Gallup poll -- I'm trying to find it.
I'm glad you're asking questions, but come on, watch the film. Then, ask your questions. But Katie, ask as many questions about the government point of view. What evidence do you have for that? Anything? Or did you, like me, just accept the media story, for no reason, really. Take the time...Most won't and don't. Actors are different. We take the time...And we really check it out. And see... maybe...we never know... - Jason |
|||
|
|
Russell Crowe |
Write down your questions while watching it. I'm into them. Let's search together Katie. Come on...I don't care if you anyone agrees.I just want you to examine it. I want to hear your questions. Let's find the answers if we can...using sources... - Jason
|
|||
|
|
Nicholas Cage |
Yeah, maybe you should stay ignorant to the world around you, its fun to play in the dark. |
|||
|