I doubt there's anyone here who's going to join some of the very people who have probably spoken out against rape and child abuse in other circumstances in trying to relativize what a famous director did. But given Whoopi's breath-taking claim that this wasn't "rape-rape", it might help to know what happened:

quote:

Let's keep in mind that Roman Polanski gave a 13-year-old girl a Quaalude and champagne, then raped her....Before we discuss how awesome his movies are or what the now-deceased judge did wrong at his trial, let's take a moment to recall that according to the victim's grand jury testimony, Roman Polanski instructed her to get into a jacuzzi naked, refused to take her home when she begged to go, began kissing her even though she said no and asked him to stop; performed cunnilingus on her as she said no and asked him to stop; put his penis in her vagina as she said no and asked him to stop; asked if he could penetrate her anally, to which she replied, "No," then went ahead and did it anyway, until he had an orgasm.

Salon.com on Polanski

Imagine for a moment that this WASN'T a 13-year-old girl - that she was what a famous director has claimed she looked: twenty-five.

Imagine all this being done to a twenty-five year old woman.

What do you think? "Rape-rape"? Or the other kind?

Whatever that is.

quote:

Originally posted by JimChevallier:
I doubt there's anyone here who's going to join some of the very people who have probably spoken out against rape and child abuse in other circumstances in trying to relativize what a famous director did. But given Whoopi's breath-taking claim that this wasn't "rape-rape", it might help to know what happened:

quote:

Let's keep in mind that Roman Polanski gave a 13-year-old girl a Quaalude and champagne, then raped her....Before we discuss how awesome his movies are or what the now-deceased judge did wrong at his trial, let's take a moment to recall that according to the victim's grand jury testimony, Roman Polanski instructed her to get into a jacuzzi naked, refused to take her home when she begged to go, began kissing her even though she said no and asked him to stop; performed cunnilingus on her as she said no and asked him to stop; put his penis in her vagina as she said no and asked him to stop; asked if he could penetrate her anally, to which she replied, "No," then went ahead and did it anyway, until he had an orgasm.

Salon.com on Polanski

Imagine for a moment that this WASN'T a 13-year-old girl - that she was what a famous director has claimed she looked: twenty-five.

Imagine all this being done to a twenty-five year old woman.

What do you think? "Rape-rape"? Or the other kind?

Whatever that is.

Let him BURN.

I knew there was no hope for Hollywood the day I saw this man get a standing ovation at the Academy Awards. Truly, a sickening spectacle.

So noone has an opinion here? Or should I assume we are all in agreement on this- I hope so.
The link from Jim's post is here below and includes the transcripts from the hearing-

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/a.../polanskicover1.html

quote:

Originally posted by miss stone:
So noone has an opinion here?

I can't think of any instance where drugging

and sodomizing someone is okay.

Added to that, we are

talking about an

eight grade

kid!

Jim

Exactly. Thank you.

One of the most revolting aspects of this case is that he paid off his accuser and now his defenders crow, "Well, SHE doesn't want him locked up!"

So anytime a person with enough money and power rapes someone poorer, bingo! Slip'em a few hundred thousand and no harm, no foul, right?

It's important to remember that the crime here is against the state as well, and against all future victims of similar predators.

There are people in Florida living under a bridge because they did what Polanski (who then went on to live with two different women when they were fifteen) did.

Then there's bright lights like Goldberg claiming that in Europe, 13, 14 years old, it isn't the same thing.

Like hell.

Even Mitterand's nephew - who himself has admitted to sex tourism in Thailand with 'boys' - is clamming up after discovering that the rest of France is not quite as unconcerned as he is about child rape. In fact, a lot of people on the center right (the French president's party) are pretty irate about his defense of the indefensible.

What's most scary here is that after years of headlines about priests abusing kids and all kinds of sensitization about rape, all it takes is a few good movies for some people to go: "No biggie... Anyway, the kid's mother should have known better..." As someone said, this is one of the first cases of not only blaming the victim, but blaming the victim's MOTHER.

What this reveals about the sense of entitlement and privilege at a certain level of our society is scary as hell. This kind of attitude is on a par with that of the French nobles before the Revolution.

So much for "liberal" Hollywood. More like "liberal until it's one of our own."

I heard something about Chris Rock going on Oprah and said that he couldn't believe people were upset about him at the Oscars or some such as in the same ceremony they gave out an award to a rapist. Apparently the audience went all quiet but he made his point.

Why won't "the others" talk about it? Why is it accepted? Why would that transcript from the court case have ANYONE else shunned form society but make a few movies and it's okay? WHY is it that way?

Does Debra Winger have any children? How about Martin Scorcese or Harrison Ford? Do these people understand that he was found guilty and fled the country for 1) drugging a girl 2) an UNDERage girl of 13!!! 3) of RAPING her as she said no no no no no.

NO means NO. They teach this in self defense classes. Middle aged men do NOT belong naked in a jacuzzi with a 13 year old girl anyhow anywhere or any place.

There is no way to slice this or dice this. A heinous crime was committed and how come he is still so vigorously defended? It blows my mind.

Whoopi Goldberg is a woman herself!

I don't understand this- I don't get it and is there any decency left in the world at all?

I do hope that's true about Chris Rock as I have always liked him and thought him very un-Hollywood.

Meanwhile, Elizabeth Smart testified today about being kidnapped and raped at 14 by another man - this one powerless and not famous.

No trouble with whom to sympathize with there, eh?

But I doubt any of Polanski's supporters see the connection.

Rape is wrong. End of story.

I guess I am driven to talk about it as so many will not, choosing the ostrich approach.

That angers me.

Jim, maybe we could compose an article referencing all this and send it off to all those in Hollywood. Tempting, isn't it?

I want them to acknowledge the absolute truth and judge him accordingly as he deserves to be.

quote:

Posts: 2229 | Location: the universe | Registered: June 04, 2007

lol

quote:

On 'The Jay Leno Show' Thursday night, Rock made the fair if hilarious point that even the most sensational trial in recent memory didn't go places that some Polanski supporters are headed.

"People are defending Roman Polanski because he made good movies 30 years ago?" he said. "Are you kidding me? Even Johnny Cochran didn't have the nerve to go, 'Well did you see OJ play against New England?'"

I look at my twelve almost thirteen year old and I can't imagine leaving her on set, let alone in a private residency, with a forty year old man. I can't stand it. But I feel, in very small way, sadness for Polanski because he experienced great emotional and physical trauma at a very young age. To him, what he did wasn't wrong, because children younger than 13 were being abused. He will forever be a child emotionally, in a 71 year old man's body. Miss Stone, I can't be quiet anymore! In no way am I saying what he did was just Hollyweird as usual. I'm totally against ever letting him go, make him pay for his crime, make him finish his sentence.

And here is the link to the article about Chris Rock on Jay Leno-

http://www.seattlepi.com/tvguide/410758_tvgif2.html

One could perhaps feel sorry for Polanski or feel that 30 years later - even if it's 30 years because he's been avoiding capture - one might let it go.

But here's the problem: how his defenders are talking about rape.

They're not just defending Polanski, they're minimizing the event and going back to language that seems out of the dark ages in terms of this crime.

Harvey Weinstein: "This so-called crime" So-called? He pleaded guilty, so legally it's a crime. He admitted raping her in an interview, so even outside the bounds of legalities it's a crime.

Whoopi: "It wasn't rape-rape." ... Where do I even start?

Angelica Huston: the girl looked "sullen". WHAT?!?

Then there are the people who blame the mother - fair enough (not exactly mother of the century is she?) but when someone leaves their door open and a thief comes in, the negligence may be the homeowner's but the crime?

That's on the thief.

Polanski committed the crime. The mother's obliviousness doesn't change that.

How about Costa-Gravas (a director who has made some crusading films)? "She was 13, but she looked 25."

Cool. Let's go out and abuse all the 25-year-olds? Or all the underage women who look older? Or....?

How far back into the Dark Ages does THAT remark go?

And so on...

Could Polanski be excused for doing a horrible thing 30 years ago, when he was still recovering from some awful events? Who knows?

Even his defenders are too busy making child rape sound trivial to raise the issue.

quote:

Originally posted by JimChevallier:
One could perhaps feel sorry for Polanski or feel that 30 years later - even if it's 30 years because he's been avoiding capture - one might let it go.

But here's the problem: how his defenders are talking about rape.
They're not just defending Polanski, they're minimizing the event and going back to language that seems out of the dark ages in terms of this crime.

Harvey Weinstein: "This so-called crime" So-called? He pleaded guilty, so legally it's a crime. He admitted raping her in an interview, so even outside the bounds of legalities it's a crime.

Whoopi: "It wasn't rape-rape." ... Where do I even start?

Angelica Huston: the girl looked "sullen". WHAT?!?

Then there are the people who blame the mother - fair enough (not exactly mother of the century is she?) but when someone leaves their door open and a thief comes in, the negligence may be the homeowner's but the crime?

That's on the thief.

Polanski committed the crime. The mother's obliviousness doesn't change that.

How about Costa-Gravas (a director who has made some crusading films)? "She was 13, but she looked 25."

Cool. Let's go out and abuse all the 25-year-olds? Or all the underage women who look older? Or....?

How far back into the Dark Ages does THAT remark go?

And so on...

Could Polanski be excused for doing a horrible thing 30 years ago, when he was still recovering from some awful events? Who knows?

Even his defenders are too busy making child rape sound trivial to raise the issue.

And THAT is what makes all of this so utterly mind-blowing and disgusting.

What is WRONG with these people!!

I worshipped Martin Scorcese- but he was the first one to initiate the standing ovation for Roman Polanski at the Oscars. That and his heavy and recent support means I will never endorse his work ever again.

She was THIRTEEN. She was THIRTEEN. She was THIRTEEN.

He gave her drugs and annally raped her. I feel sick just writing it.

The road of denial is a dark and depraved one indeed.

To all of those reading this with any doubt- just imagine if it was YOUR 13 year old daughter that was fed Qualludes and champagne, lured into a jacuzzi while a 44 year old man her father's age crawled naked in there too.

Then he leads her into the bedroom after she gets out but is unable to move much due to the drugs/booze that her young body is reeling from the effects of.

Imagine, while she says no, he then still forces himself into her and then into her ass.

She is helpless. She can't move, she can't resist as she is just a lttle girl and so very scared to death.

This is the reality of this situation. If we talk about ANY other aspect of the incident other than this, be it her mother, or how old she looked or what not we are avoiding the real truth of this atrocity.

If he wasn't famous, he'd be doing a decade or more of hard time right now and everyone would say he should burn.

Is that the key to Hollywood's acceptance? Rolling in mud?

For anyone who wonders how "mature" she looked... here's a site with a photo:

Samantha Geimer

(She herself went public long ago or I of course would not be posting this link.)

Oh my God.....

Polanski should be punished.

I'm just glad the girl seems to have gotten closure on it. Having something like that done to you can eat away at your soul if you don't find closure to it.

quote:

if you knew Roman Polanski like we know Roman Polanski, you would surely understand how artistically narrow-minded it is to treat him like a rapist just because he raped someone.

To see what various writers are saying:
Blogrunner on Polanski

I got through two articles, watched Whoopi on "The View (that was while I had my face buried in my palm) and now my head is spinning. I feel helpless and frustrated and every time I read about it, I get sick over it all.

How about this paragraph-

"Working on the film "Chinatown," the writer Robert Towne found it hard to concentrate at the director's pad, what with "the teenyboppers that Roman would run out and take Polaroid pictures of diving off the f***ing diving board without tops on. Which was distracting. With braces."

This man has deep issues. He has a problem. I do believe he will re-offend every chance he gets and needs to be locked away where he cannot hurt anyone else.

How about the fact that as soon as he fled, he hooked up with 15 year old Nastassja Kinski?

I also thought this was just priceless-

"Harvey Weinstein, the man behind the pro-Polanski petition, rejects the idea that Hollywood is "amoral": "Hollywood has the best moral compass, because it has compassion," he told an interviewer."

Like the writer goes on to say, yeah, compassion for him, not the victim.

And my favorite line is from the petition circulating-

"If we worked with, partied with, and celebrated the film director Roman Polanski, it cannot be that he is guilty of anything meaningful."

So, in Hollywood terms, anal rape of children is a non-issue.

Cool. Just so we're clear.

If you read between the lines of the petition, the basic meaning is, "We are fucking Hollywood royalty and we don't have to abide by the same laws as the common folk so we demand you let him go."

Read the line-"We the undersigned constitute a special class of persons. We are both intensely sensitive and intensely well-connected."

A "special class of persons"?

Well, they are right about that in a sense.

Very sad to see Darren Aronofsky's name on it, along with Terry Gilliam.

I can't believe how many names are on it!