quote:

Originally posted by LoveJoy:
I read the three ways SAG lists to get into their union, however, I'm curious how some of the members on here got into SAG and what, if any, are your suggestions? For instance, do casting directors look to audition and hire only people who already are SAG?

I read in An Agent Tells All that the agent never signed anyone over 25 without a SAG card. I'm right on that age borderline and wondering if I'm going to have to have SAG to get theatrical rep or hired by a CD. I have a commerical rep who hasn't said a word to me about SAG but has been insistent about me getting a demo reel before he'll rep me theatrically, which I'm putting up this week. I would talk to my comm. agent about this, but I don't feel like he's very accessible. I need advice. Please help. I do have a full resume of theatre, student films and short films and feel like I'm ready to do union work.

Dear LoveJoy,

I got into SAG using what I call, "The Idiot Technique."

Initially, I crashed a commercial audition using a friend's name, and actually booked it. But since it was a SAG commercial and I did it under another actor's name, I couldn't use it to get my SAG card! But then I was spotted by the director doing extra work and he saw something in me, giving me a shot in a two-part episode on a hit TV show. It was one of those "once in a lifetime" moments that I never could have imagined or even dreamt of, but that's exactly how it went down.

There's many good posts here on the "pro's and con's" of staying non-union or taking the plunge, but it sounds like you've already made the decision to go for it. I've had so many of my clients get their union card by doing SAG extra work now that I highly recommend this avenue as one of the absolute best ways I know of to to become a member (once you've racked up three "SAG waiver" extra vouchers, you're SAG Eligible).

To even be considered for representation by any SAG franchised agency, you'll absolutely need that card. On rare occasions agents will take on non-union actors, but it's extremely uncommon. Most union agents won't even grant you an interview you without the ability to immediately begin submitting you to casting directors for SAG work.

"Whatever works."

www.robertkim.com

I was very lucky. I had never done extra work before just student and indi films. My first week in L.A. I went to an open casting call for extras for J.J. Abrams new Star Trek movie on a whim. I got a call to be in it for four days, they liked me and used me two other days which were SAG days. They were great and on top of all that, I got to meet Steven Spielberg one of those days becuase he stopped by the set.

Then I got called back a few more days and I was done. But I only had two SAG vouchers. Being responsible and always on time and anxious to work the casting director from Headquarters Casting in L.A. remembered me and gave me call last minute to come in on a SAG day for a greenscreen shot. Hence I got all 3 of my vouchers in about two and a half months. It was a great experience as far as extra work goes I am told.

I have not sent in the vouchers but I have them.

quote:

I am always confused by stories of people who can't get a union audition in ten years of work. I wonder what those actors are doing (or not doing) to get themselves seen, or whether they are merely not in demand as performers.

That's insulting to actors. Getting union auditions happens when you get into the union. Getting into the union is not merit based. So to blame an actor for not getting in and not having union auditions is unfair.

Acting is about supply and demand. There are plenty of exceedingly talented actors and scant roles. So to blame them for not being sent out by agents is unfair.

It's almost impossible to get agent representation where you are being sent out regularly for union work. I know many actors who have been in the game for over ten years and have *never* auditioned for union television or film.

That is the norm! It's the norm for *most* actors. To say you are "confused" about this situation is very rude and unfair. It's frustrating enough to try and get work in this biz, but to be told after doing it for years that you are the problem is beyond the pale.

It's as unfair as somebody saying to you that you've been in the business for 20 years and it "confuses" them that you don't have one union tv or film credit to speak of. (I haven't seen any when I looked you up.)

It's as rude and unfair as somebody saying to you that you've been casting for years and still don't have a casting credit to speak of. Maybe they can say, "Hmm, I wonder what she is doing (or not doing) to keep herself down? Methinks she needs to be more proactive. I wonder why she is not in demand?"

It's easy to sit in a teaching position, annointing yourself an "expert" while deriding talented non-union actors who are out in the field trying their hardest, making all kinds of sacrifices, to make it happen.

And secret agent man is no better. His flippant comment about actors working for ten years at membership is irresponsible and ignorant and just nasty.

Can't they say to him: Hey "secret agent man" how many years have you been doing what you're doing? Are you seriously a major agent in this business? (I doubt it. Your posts show only basic, common sense info about the biz that any actor of a few years already knows.)

The bigger they are, the nicer they are. If secret agent man was even a known junior level agent he'd not be spending his time tearing actors down.

I apologize beforehand for being so harsh, but you both need it. Actors don't need this type of disrespect.

Judge not, internet acting "gurus," lest ye be judged.

Wow, thanks for all the replies. I can't say I feel a whole lot better about this SAG dilemma.

So here's my update ... I've been doing extra work for 3 weeks now. I got one union voucher at the beginning of one day when I was handed my voucher (luck) but it was for AFTRA. I did call SAG. They said since I got paid SAG scale for an AFTRA show that sometimes both unions will count that (after two more vouchers I'll definitely be begging for that one to count.

I was the super extra one day thinking all my hard work would surely get me a voucher. No luck. I met a woman on set with at least F cup breasts who liked to advertise them who was TH'd because she knew someone who could get her a speaking part and a guy who got TH'd because he knew someone. I met a kid who got all three vouchers his first week and now has 15. He does extra work for fun and has no plans to act or join SAG (ugh - I wish he could sign a few over to me!)- another girl who got hers in three months and another girl who was still looking for that 3rd voucher after a year of extra work. And I've met a lot of other people chasing those elusive 1st vouchers wondering how you ever get these things. One guy told me to wear low cut tops on set to get vouchers and I know a girl who got one doing that (it was her first). It goes on and on. I definitely think the way it is set up is fairly often corrupt and definitely random. It's like a popularity contest worse than any in high school at least the extra route anyway.

In addition to playing the extra lottery, my demo reel will be online this week so I plan to begin scouting for a theatrical agent. When I went out for a commercial agent, I thought the worst that can happen is nothing. I feel like I have the reel, talent, image and resume to attract a theatrical agent so I'm going to give it a shot. Just like last time, the worst that can happen is nothing. And last time I got a commerical agent so hopefully this time I'll get a theatrical agent who can submit me so I can nab those roles I just know I'm meant for!

On a final note, doing extra work has been a great experience whether I ever get the vouchers or not - I have a true respect for the background people and the crew. Everyone works such long, hard hours. I look at the actors on set and think, one day I'm going to be that actress with the trailer and I will always be nice to the crew and the extras because I know what it's like to be one of them. I think every actor should have the experience of the humble jobs like background so when they get to the big jobs they will always be courteous to those who are supporting them in the background. And the other bonus is that all the other extras are really nice. Everyday I make a new friend that I spend the day with. Good people make long hours bearable and at times even fun.

You'd be surprised to learn how many well-known actors began their careers as extras!

Clark Gable, Valerie Harper, Clint Eastwood and Burt Reynolds to name a few.

There are only two kinds of actors on a set, those with lines and those without. Both are vital, both are necessary.

Remember: "There is no such thing as small roles, only small salaries."

"Whatever works."

www.robertkim.com

quote:

Judge not, internet acting "gurus," lest ye be judged.

Well, bring it on.

It appears you don't read my column (which I've been writing for years now for Backstage the paper) and only know me through the internet. I am always quite upfront with my experience and lack of in various areas. I always speak openly about what acting and casting experience I have--and never claim to have done things I have not. My credits are available for all to look up, should they care. My knowledge base comes from years of work in various parts of the field, including acting, casting, and producing, but for the purposes of my column and work on this website it comes from plain old newspaper reporting homework and reading. I interview tons of industry people for my column, always learning new things. I am in touch with the union reps weekly. I read diligently. If there are specific claims you think I have made falsely, please bring them to my attention in a PM so I can rectify the confusion. But I stand by what I say, and never pretend to be anything I am not. I suggest you learn more about me before you judge me.

As for your accusations that I am being rude and unfair: I auditioned for many union projects in all the major unions before I joined. As I said, this was through my agents. You do not need to be union to get union auditions, I don't know how much more clearly I can say that. YES, it helps! YES, it helps VERY much to have an agent. YES commercials are easier to break into than SAG films or SAG or AFTRA shows...But for the actors out there pounding th pavement for 10 years who have not had a single union audition, well color me harsh, but I think there's a problem there bigger than can be explained by blaming the unions, I'm not talking about talent. Many of the absolute best actors I know have quit acting due to the "business" aspects. But getting yourself seen, as well all know, has a lot to do with self-management. That often is, unfortunately, as important as what you do when you begin to act.

Finally, Easternwest, though I disagree with your summary judgments, I appreciate that you are so direct. Hope to see future posts of yours with your sights directed on the big issues.

Oh, and Secret Agent Man is legit. If you or I could ever convince him to rep us we'd be very lucky indeed.

Well, secretagentman said he can't imagine spending 10 years chasing a union card. That is naive.

He doesn't know the scene in New York City, for sure. Most actors don't ever get in the union. And plenty are still trying after ten years.

Maybe to not get one single SAG audition in ten years is grounds to wonder about the actor, but the paucity of roles vs. the number of actors in New York makes for a situation where it's not unusual.

If a non-union actor is regularly being sent out for SAG work by an agent, that actor should count his or her blessings. It's not the norm.

But I will admit that if we're specifically saying "not one" SAG audition in ten years, there may be a problem.

But to go ten years without a union card is sadly all too normal. To go ten years with *very* few SAG auditions is also sadly normal.

Phuck SAG. I agree with LADelight. This positive thinking crap is for the birds. REALITY is that you can't get an audition worth a crap if you're not SAG.

I spoke to my agent and she said that as a co-star on a SAG TV show, you'll make about 700 bucks. It's not worth it for the producers to Taft. The only way Tafting is worth it is on commercials.

So yeah, who cares how you get in? By any means necessary, because when you get cast in something SAG and you finally get a nice paycheck, I'm sure you won't give a sh-t about giving someone a few bills for that last voucher.

Morality? In Hollywood? Wake up people!

quote:

Originally posted by Easternwest:
That's insulting to actors. Getting union auditions happens when you get into the union. Getting into the union is not merit based. So to blame an actor for not getting in and not having union auditions is unfair.

It's almost impossible to get agent representation where you are being sent out regularly for union work. I know many actors who have been in the game for over ten years and have *never* auditioned for union television or film.

That is the norm! It's the norm for *most* actors. To say you are "confused" about this situation is very rude and unfair. It's frustrating enough to try and get work in this biz, but to be told after doing it for years that you are the problem is beyond the pale.

Dear Easternwest,

After participating on this board for awhile, I've noticed that there are essentially two kinds of posters... those who like to tear down, and those who like to build up. That said, I don't think anyone here is being intentionally rude or condescending. Sometimes in our zeal to defend our various viewpoints, we lose sight of our original objective -- to share what helpful knowledge we can.

Everyone who's been in this business more than one week knows all too well the enormous forces set against our succeeding. So then, what exactly is "the norm for most actors" trying to break into film work? Answer: There is no 'norm.' I've offered a simple and effective way to get a union card, and have several others. But that's just a starting point. And although I can certainly sympathize with "El Mariachi's" apparently dim view of "positive thinking's" role in our ultimate success or failure, I also know that without it you've pretty much sabotaged a promising career before it can even get started. The fact is, whatever we think, we manifest. Mediocrity and failure are fellow travelers. Correct mental attitude is key to this business.

I remember when I was a bartender in LA, working at the local disco to pay the rent. One day, Mickey Rourke rolled up on his Harley and sat down at the bar. There was nobody else around. I HAD HIM ALL TO MYSELF. When the subject of acting came up, he asked, "Are you an actor?" Nodding my head, he offered this: "If you really bust your ass and don't make any credible inroads in five years, go home." I agreed with him. Then I recalled photographing Pat Morita, 'Mr. Miyagi' of "The Karate Kid." I remembered when he performed stand up comedy in Chinatown for tips and drinks, entertaining drunks and strippers and dreaming about becoming a big star someday. At nearly sixty-five years of age and with only bit part credit as the cook on "Happy Days," out of sheer desperation they invited him to read with a skinny Long Island kid named Ralph Macchio, and the rest is history. But his case is so unique and his path so thoroughly implausible, I doubt that many could have endured so long before "the call" finally arrived.

By limiting yourself to a pre-determined time frame in which to succeed, you can actually sabotage your own career. But there are the harsher realities of this business, along with the simple demands of making a living. Taken all-in-all, I still believe in the concept of, "talent will out." If you truly have the acting skills necessary to succeed, you will. I also believe that the qualities necessary to make acting a career show up early -- the "starving artist" argument only goes so far. I think the single most difficult question any aspiring actor must ultimately ask himself is this: DO I REALLY HAVE WHAT IT TAKES TO MAKE IT IN THIS BUSINESS? First, you must utilize every, single device possible to be noticed -- and by someone who can do something about it. Perseverance is absolutely essential. But when perseverance becomes delusion and self-deception, it becomes something entirely different.

Talent is essential. Luck plays a part. Connections are wonderful. But short of owning a crystal ball, no one knows when the breaks will come your way, if ever.

"Whatever works."

www.robertkim.com