There's a "casting director" in California who used to be opposed to paying to be seen. Now she's running her own showcase. She's got her snarky kissupper as assistant. Another suckup advertises his business through the shocase.

Just wrong.

You fail to mention who this person is-I think everyone needs a little more info before passing judgement here.

I agree with LA Delight. You sound like someone with an axe to grind. Also, you might want to take a grammar and spelling class. Just a thought.

No, I don't need to give the person's name. Secret agent already said he thinks I have an ax to grind. So if I name her/him then that will just give you more ammo to trash me.

Let's stick to the concept. Should a casting director be running a shocase where actors pay to be seen by other cds or supposed agents?

Based on your rudness you sound like one of this cd's people. Or maybe shobizness just has rude people all over the place.

you have to pay for all of the reputable showcase places, such as Breakthrough Studios and The Network. One of the people that started breakthrough was a former teacher of mine, and he's a working actor as well. i don't think it should matter who runs it, it matters who they get to go there.

I guess you're right. Times are changing and these pay to be seen places are everywhere. But this individual casting person specifically used to rail against pay to be seen. She was aligned with a casting director who ran donotpay.org So to see her running a shocase now is a bit much to take.

But this is the USA and people can do what they want.

Just to throw another perspective into the mix, I thought I'd post one of my Working Actor columns where I addressed the pay-to-be-seen question.

Hope this is helpful. MK
------------------------------------------
An Ethical Dilemma

DEAR MICHAEL:
I am a newcomer to Los Angeles and have auditioned for and joined one of the casting workshops where you sign up to meet agents and casting directors. I have gotten called in for a couple of co-star roles from one of the meetings, so I’m pleased with the results.
However, I wondered how these workshops were perceived in the business. Since I’m new, I felt it was an expedient way to get myself out there quickly. Some actors have said they would never do it because they don’t think it’s right to pay for auditions. I don’t agree, because you’re actually paying for three hours of this casting director’s or agent’s time and their expertise and advice. What’s your take on this?
—A New York Transplant in the Valley
Los Angeles, Calif.

DEAR TRANSPLANT:
Ooh, you’ve hit a hot-button issue, one that always seems to stir up debate. You wanted my take, so here it is: There is no question that actors sometimes get work from these workshops. But should we do them? That’s another question entirely, and it’s a question with many answers. So congratulations, Transplant, you got yourself a whole column.

After years of pondering this complex issue, my answer to whether or not actors should attend casting director workshops is this: It depends. The dividing line between yes and no has to do with several things: who’s teaching, your reasons for attending, and your personal sense of—now don’t be shocked—ethics.

If you’re interested in educating yourself and learning more about auditioning, and you want to take a class to improve that skill, then the very best person you could possibly study with would be a seasoned, established casting director. Someone who has spent years watching actors come in and out of the office to audition may well have a lot to impart on that subject. For the class to be worthwhile, however, the casting director must also be a good instructor.

Let’s look at those qualifications carefully before we move on. For the workshop to be an educational experience, the person teaching must have expertise on the subject and a talent for teaching, and the students must be there to learn. Under those circumstances, I believe it is perfectly fine to pay to attend a casting director workshop. It’s money well spent.
But if your teacher is the second-assistant casting assistant who got into casting last week because he or she couldn’t make it as an actor and who has nothing more informative to tell you than whether his or her office reads post cards from actors and whether he or she liked your scene, then I think we all know you’re not really in a class.

I used the extreme example for clarity, but even some very experienced guest teachers aren’t really there to teach. Some are there for the supplemental income you’re providing. Some are there looking for new faces. Still, if there’s no instruction, then it’s not a class and it’s not a workshop. It’s called that, for legal reasons, but let’s not kid ourselves. You’re paying to meet someone who might someday be able to give you work, and that’s where things get a bit shady.

Indeed, anytime something has to be called something else “for legal reasons,” it ought to give one pause.

Casting directors are paid to find talent. That’s the job description. So it’s not ethical for them to turn around and charge talent to be seen. That’s called “double dipping”—getting paid twice for the same job. Some claim they don’t have enough time to meet new actors, so after-hours workshops are a necessity.
Hold on a second. Let’s think about that: They only have time to meet new actors if the actors are paying them? Why not just stay late at the office?

On our side of the transaction, if nothing is being taught or learned, then we are in essence paying to be interviewed for possible future work. And that’s a violation of Screen Actors Guild rules. And even if it weren’t, I wish actors would think better of themselves than to pay a casting person to consider them.

Now, many readers may be saying, “But Michael, I’ve gotten work from these things.” I know. And young starlets in the old days of Hollywood sometimes got work from having sex with film producers. I’m not saying casting director workshops are as unethical as that. But I am absolutely saying their effectiveness doesn’t prove that they’re right for you. Do the ends justify the means at any cost?

As for how actors who take workshops are perceived in the business, I’m sure there are many opinions. I think actors who pay purely to meet contacts are viewed as young in their careers and perhaps a bit needier, though I doubt anyone’s reputation is permanently besmirched.

Still, here’s a quick story worth noting: Early in my career, I attended one of these workshops. The casting director recognized one of the other actors in attendance. “What are you doing here?” she asked. “You’re a good actor.”

Another actor I know attended a workshop in which she and fellow students were kept waiting for an hour while the guest casting associate went to the gym. That doesn’t indicate much respect, does it?

To be fair, there are certainly other worthy viewpoints. For example, one friend of mine sees it this way: “To me, it’s always worth going to these things. Even if the teacher sucks, I’m getting practice. It’s like my audition gym.” Another friend says, “I can’t afford to be ethical. With no agent, this is the only way I can get seen.”

What should you do? Well, what’s interesting about this question is that it requires that you, the actor, make individual decisions. If, like me, you’re bothered by the pay-to-meet variety of workshops, if you find them unethical and demeaning, then before signing up, research potential teachers and decline any class that remotely resembles a paid audition.
If, on the other hand, you feel there’s an effective system in place that allows you to make contacts you wouldn’t make otherwise and you feel fine about paying for that opportunity, or if you find every workshop educational, regardless of who’s teaching, then you’re home free.

And that’s the bottom line here. You have to decide. What makes this such a compelling issue, though challenging and hotly debated, is that it requires us, as actors, to consider things like dignity and ethics—topics that aren’t considered nearly often enough in our business.

Michael Kostroff is a series regular on HBO’s The Wire the author of the book Letters From Backstage: The Adventures of a Touring Stage Actor, and teaches his "Audition Psych. 101" workshop monthly.

On the outside looking in.

Face the truth - the business has gone this way.
Either you can stand their while other actors take advantage of it or get in the game.

What a great response, Michael. Thanks for the viewpoint!

Thanks to tuff and everyone else. Your responses are helpful.

quote:

Face the truth - the business has gone this way.
Either you can stand their while other actors take advantage of it or get in the game.

There are other choices. I don't go to casting workshops, and I do OK.

What about the rest of you? Any others out there who decline to participate in casting director workshops?

I think some people quite simply "bottom-line" this - that is, they don't care if it's unethical, they don't care if it's unfair to those who DON'T pay. They just want to know if it will help them get work.

For most people, I think the answer is that it may - and that's a big may - get you a few walk-on parts. Or at least called in for them - not least, I suspect, because the CD's who virtually live off these workshops (a few names reappear on all the workshop lists, every month) know enough to at least call a few attendees in from time to time.

In general, the people I used to see called in the most were the clearcut character types, as opposed to the "moms", "dads", etc. I don't know that even many of these folks get beyond scattered under-five parts.

Recently I saw an actress playing a receptionist on "Desperate Housewives". She came out 11 years ago with a group of us and this is the first time I've seen her on TV (which doesn't mean I didn't miss a few other similar parts).

Meanwhile - as I've mentioned before - I see working actors doing theater for basically no pay, just because they want to work. They become actors, and, it seems, they become known as actors.

Kathy Joosten, in fairness, has done both - she's a big workshop supporter and also has done a number of stage productions out here. She's also of course a very strong character type.

Basically, you won't find many (any?) people working as regulars on TV shows who came up the workshop route.

Really good information, Jim!

I find it refreshing to read your opinion about the character types getting the work more, because I am not a character type and I never had any luck with the workshops and seminars.

Not to offend minorities, but I notice that minorities are considered "character" types. It seems that every black friend of mine, every black actor I know has at least auditioned for major projects. And when they do seminars they tend to get called in more.

I'm guessing that it's based on sheer numbers. There aren't that many in the talent pool so the casting people take them for the under fives.

It's kind of a reverse discrimination.

In terms of leading parts, blacks get discriminated against. But for breaking in by way of these workshops it is to their advantage over a white mom type.

I have to character up my face I suppose. Shave my head or something.
And yes, the same people keep doing the showcases. They live off them.

I went to a few of these sessions a few years ago, when i was a little more green. i consider any audition to be time well spent, but i should've known better as I really didn't have any good credits on my resume at the time. Now I prefer to be seen through the work i do.

however..i did go to an extremely helpful all day audition workshop with a top casting director for a major network. She was an incredible instructor, and offered very helpful advice and feedback. She paid attention, and seemed to genuinely care about teaching. A lot of what she said has stayed with me and really helped my "audition outlook" so to speak.

so i think there's something to be said for actual workshops, that arent just "audition in front of a panel" sorts of things. but don't go into them thinking you're going to get cast in something...

quote:

i did go to an extremely helpful all day audition workshop with a top casting director for a major network. She was an incredible instructor, and offered very helpful advice and feedback. She paid attention, and seemed to genuinely care about teaching. A lot of what she said has stayed with me and really helped my "audition outlook" so to speak.

Now THAT is a legitimate workshop, and one worth taking. The goal is to learn and improve, not to get work through the teacher.

"learn and improve" wow Michael, what a concept. I think if more young actors, no scratch that, if more actors (period) took that approach to their craft and their careers there would be so many less, uhm, unethical? practices out there. Just a thought.
By the by are there any known good "workshops"? I've done a couple throught the SAG Conservatory and some were great some were 2 hour commercials for the teacher's services. Ok I'm rambling, sorry.