The confusion here is that as a member of a sister union you can not work on a non-union project in sister union's jurisdiction. However, you can work a non-union role in a sister union's union production. So as an AFTRA member you can work as a non-SAG extra on a SAG shoot or have a non-AEA role in an AEA theatre. What you aren't supposed to do is work on projects that have no union contract.

BTW this issue has nothing to do with Global Rule One--which concerns working on SAG films in foreign countries.

However, all of this is a moot point for you because it's a bad idea to join any of the unions until you need to/are ready.

quote:

Originally posted by Camille:
The confusion here is that as a member of a sister union you can not work on a non-union project in sister union's jurisdiction. However, you can work a non-union role in a sister union's union production. So as an AFTRA member you can work as a non-SAG extra on a SAG shoot or have a non-AEA role in an AEA theatre. What you aren't supposed to do is work on projects that have no union contract.

Actually, it doesn't matter if the project itself is union; you can't work it n/u because as a union member you are supposed to always work under union wages and working conditions. If you work n/u you aren't, regardless of whether the project is under a union contract.

Well, LADelight, IMHO you are wrong. However, I know I'm not going to convince you. So really, the bottom line is that people should consult the unions directly: speak to union representatives, read the union rules and come to their own conclusions.

Remember, if laws were interpreted the same by everyone the Supreme Court wouldn't have much to do!

quote:

Originally posted by Camille:
The confusion here is that as a member of a sister union you can not work on a non-union project in sister union's jurisdiction. However, you can work a non-union role in a sister union's union production. So as an AFTRA member you can work as a non-SAG extra on a SAG shoot or have a non-AEA role in an AEA theatre. What you aren't supposed to do is work on projects that have no union contract.

BTW this issue has nothing to do with Global Rule One--which concerns working on SAG films in foreign countries.

Sorry -- but that is SO incorrect.

I suggest everyone read this thread for more information. It even discusses the fact that people who call AFTRA directly are often given misinformation -- something that AFTRA is (supposedly) working on correcting. Obviously, though, they haven't been very successful.

As I stated-- I know I'm not going to convince everyone. However, I stand by what I said. Also, I don't understand why anyone would believe non-union members over a representative at one of the unions. Makes no sense to me, but everyone can believe what they wish

quote:

Originally posted by boheme:

quote:

Originally posted by Camille:
The confusion here is that as a member of a sister union you can not work on a non-union project in sister union's jurisdiction. However, you can work a non-union role in a sister union's union production. So as an AFTRA member you can work as a non-SAG extra on a SAG shoot or have a non-AEA role in an AEA theatre. What you aren't supposed to do is work on projects that have no union contract.

BTW this issue has nothing to do with Global Rule One--which concerns working on SAG films in foreign countries.

Sorry -- but that is SO incorrect.

I suggest everyone read this thread for more information. It even discusses the fact that people who call AFTRA directly are often given misinformation -- something that AFTRA is (supposedly) working on correcting. Obviously, though, they haven't been very successful.

quote:

Originally posted by Camille:
As I stated-- I know I'm not going to convince everyone. However, I stand by what I said. Also, I don't understand why anyone would believe non-union members over a representative at one of the unions. Makes no sense to me, but everyone can believe what they wish

Not to beat a dead horse, but I'll trust information from working union actors who know the business, rather than from someone who thinks that "Global Rule One" refers to SAG work in foreign countries.

Kaye,

You are confusing the 4As'(sister union) Agreement with Global Rule One.

Well, you know I am done here--your ignorance, not to mention rudeness, is astounding. It is extremely callous of you to resort to personal (and assumptive) attacks without even offering the logic of your position.

I fail to see how this is helping the original poster, but then, I suspect that was not your motive.

quote:

Originally posted by boheme:

quote:

Originally posted by Camille:
As I stated-- I know I'm not going to convince everyone. However, I stand by what I said. Also, I don't understand why anyone would believe non-union members over a representative at one of the unions. Makes no sense to me, but everyone can believe what they wish

Not to beat a dead horse, but I'll trust information from working union actors who know the business, rather than from someone who thinks that "Global Rule One" refers to SAG work in foreign countries.

Kaye,

I was just thinking abpout our little exchange here and I see what happened. I apologize if you felt I was insulting you in some way. That was not my intent.

Please, I urge everyone to read the rules themselves and ask the Unions. I don't think you can assume the Union is misinformed if what they say contradicts what you've heard elsewhere. I think your first assumption needs to be that the Union knows what they are talking about and go from there.

From SAG.org:

What is Global Rule One?

“No member shall work as a performer or make an agreement to work as a performer for any producer who has not executed a basic minimum agreement with the Guild which is in full force and effect.” - from the SAG Constitution

In plain language, that means that a SAG member must always work under a union contract, and must NEVER work non-union.

From what I read in the books (acting), once you join any of the unions, ie SAG,AFTRA, and AEA, you can't (not suppose to) do anything non-union. That's how come up here, don't join any if them until you have to. It's like if you're SAG, you can't do any non-union theatre.

My astonishment continues. So many different issues are being confused here that there isn't a useful point in any of it anymore.

Best of Luck to everyone.

Okay, let's sort the issues out here. The questions are:

1. Can an AFTRA member do nonunion background work on a SAG project?

2. Does Global Rule One mean that a SAG actor cannot do ANY nonunion work under any of the sister union's jurisdictions, or does it only mean you can't do any nonunion work in SAG's jurisdiction?

Are those the two questions that came up here? I need some clarity before trying to clarify!

And by the way, I think this is all helpful for Musey--the original poster. It's clear from this how complex things can get (or seem to get).
Musey--if I were you, I'd focus on COMMERCIAL agents for now, who are more open to non-SAG talent. And I hope you were clear on the issue that simply joining AFTRA does not make you eligible for SAG after a year--you must work as a principal performer during that year. You might also try and get a manager--often easier to land than agents--and he or she may be able to help you with the agent hunt. Just be sure to research anyone you plan to work with. Finally, you say you have "been told by many" that agents won't rep you if you are non-union. Have you submitted for yourself!!?? What we hear and what happens for each of us individually often differs, and sometimes radically.

--J

Well, like someone said, everyone will have a different opinion. From my experience starting out was this. I hit the same wall as you did. Casting folks were saying "I can't do anything for you until you are SAG". Several weeks later by some reason I became SAG. I went to those same casting people and the excuse was different now. How did I get into SAG? I was in a play that turned AEA and we had an option to stay on or leave. I stayed on as advised and joined SAG the next day since I was a member of AFTRA already. Since I was a member of AFTRA and held a principal role in another "sister" union I was able to join. I personaly don't think you have to join AFTRA to have an option to join SAG. It could happen for you either way. Sooner or later you won't be able to do a AFTRA jobs after doing about three-this will make you a "must-join". I don't know what market your look falls into. But there isn't much work in the AFTRA jurisdiction in my opionion to warrent such a "high" initiation fee. Being affected at Central by joining one of the union/guilds....ehhhhhhh...don't think you will. Are you missing something with the SAG voucher thingy? Nope, you just have to be on the right set / projects that are giving out those "vouchers". I recently worked on "Nortorious" & "When in Rome" and they were giving out voucher and a lot on the first. So, don't beat yourself up too badly---it's all about that timing.

One friend told me that if "they" want you "they" will get you. First we have to remember that it is NOT a "union" like the teamsters have their unions. What we have is a "guild"-it is SCREEN ACTORS GUILD. I have friends who are making a killing by not joing any of the unions. You also have to see this as a BUSINESS. Most actors tend to see this as acting first and business second and it's not. Those friends they find ways around joining and continue to work wheather it is in a "right to work state" or project that are non-union and are paying.

If you deal with this industry as a business, you will see much strides achieved in a shorter time. Sure in joining the guild you get more pay, overtime and all that good stuff. But if you feel this is the route for you, then let no one stop you. But before you clump down that HEFTY payment and they don't take installments like AFTRA --ask yourself what you are really getting for your cash? Only join the guild, associations, when you have no other options. It's only business.

Good luck-

quote:

Originally posted by LADelight:
This very question was asked on another board and Denny Delk, voiceover extraordinaire(Got Milk, Lexus) and AFTRA National Board member responded with the following:

"Article XXXI of AFTRA’s constitution requires that AFTRA members honor “do not work” orders applied by sister unions in their jurisdictions...Simply put, an AFTRA member cannot work non-union jobs in another performer union's jurisdiction, if that union has rules preventing its own members from working non-union: by way of example, AFTRA members may not work "over the cap" on theatrical film as non-union background; AFTRA members may not work non-union in live theater, etc."

According to the AFTRA spokesperson--in conversation with the national board--these comments by Delk are correct and AFTRA members cannot do non-union work in a sister union's jurisdiction when that union's own members are prohibited from taking such jobs. This means the nonunion background gig (whether on a union or nonunion project) is off limits, according to official protocols. That doesn't mean there isn't confusion, or that union folks don't work in sister union territory as non-union actors, but officially, it's a no no.