Wow, I must've hit a raw nerve.

If you want to get into a "mine is bigger than yours" challenge -- your d*ck is bigger than mine, and my d*ck salutes yours. I don't need to whip mine out to prove a point if said point has a modicum of intrinsic merit or substance.

But when it comes to verbal jousting, maybe if you actually completed college, you would have a greater facility with language and reading comprehension and you wouldn't have overreacted (I kid, I kid).

As for "talking about acting" -- your post count compared to mine should caution you to keep your stones firmly in your glass house.

I apologize if asking for your resume upset you.

Hey DewRag, As a director who reads resumes every day: a person's education is one of the first things I look at. It definitely colors my assessment of what their potential is. That doesn't mean they have to have a degree to be cast; but whether the education experience overall is important to them tells me a lot.

If I were you, I'd read Jim Chevallier's post again and not get too bogged down in all the rest of this.

Hey zdirector, as a photographer who rarely reads resumes, I have a question:

If a person's education "is one of the first things you look at," why is it always listed LAST on a professional resume?

Only well-known acting instructors are recognized by most casting directors, which unfortunately excludes the thousands of tenured professors from colleges they've never even heard of. Secondly, any actor can list any respected acting coach they wish, simply by glancing at an issue of Backstage -- that doesn't mean they've studied extensively with them or anything of the sort. Lying on resumes is as pervasive as lying in politics. If you're depending on someone's purported education to determine if it qualifies them for anything short of background work on "Sex And The City," you're due for a bitter disappointment. Outside of a subtle nod of recognition, what specific jobs has studying with a particular teacher or graduating from a major university gotten you?

When it comes time to selecting cast members for a professional production, experience trumps formal education every, single time.

“Whatever works.”

www.robertkim.com
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0453647

quote:

Originally posted by Iceman:
I have a Bachelors degree in Theater Arts, and it's never done me a spot of good. It IS on my resume, but no one really takes much notice of it. The training that came with it was NOT as good as other training I've had in Los Angeles. In my case, it was actually detrimental because I thought I was much better then I was because I had a degree in it.
I suspect if you go to a school that is well known for its acting program, they might take some notice.

Bravo. Iceman.

Finally, someone with the actual courage to offer an opposing view.

“Whatever works.”

www.robertkim.com
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0453647

To RKP: First of all, on most of the resumes I see, Special Skills are listed last, not education. Second, I often read things backwards (it's more fun that way). Third, I don't look so much for the specific college or professor as I do for a general indication of how much education the person has. It is not a value judgement; it is part of the process of me getting to know everything I can about a person. Finding people with talent and experience is extremely easy in this world of many-more-actors-than-roles. Finding a talented person who works well with others and has the right attitude to be an actor in one of my projects is much harder. Although I hate making generalizations, I must say that people with extensive education tend to be easier to work with, more informed about lots of things, and more open minded than those without.

As far as lying on a res is concerned, people can just as easily lie about where they've acted or what they've done as they can about their education. In fact, verifying their educational background can often be accomplished faster than verifying what shows/films they were in.

As to your last question, the universities I attended and the people I worked with happen to be very highly esteemed, and I have gotten many jobs because of that.

quote:

Originally posted by zdirector:
Hey DewRag, As a director who reads resumes every day: a person's education is one of the first things I look at.

We got that you’re a director, “zdirector.”

Of what exactly, remains a mystery. To clear the matter up: If I were to ask to see your current professional resume, would it engender the same penis-inspired, “verbal jousting” and pseudo-intellectual insults that “donquixote” deflected my original question with? For as much as your replies reflect your sincerity, you have me at a distinct disadvantage. You know who I am, but I don't know who you are. Actors often "inflate" their credentials, but with the advent of IMDb and even a passing knowledge of the industry, a current resume can go a long way in dispelling any confusion on this issue.

I noticed that there are many “experts” who regularly post to this board, making me question much of what I read here. Perhaps a little less on the, “trust me, I’m an expert” side and a little more on the, “here is my current resume” side would go a long way in determining the actual experience level of all who contribute here -- to everyone’s benefit.

“Whatever works.”

www.robertkim.com
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0453647

Ok, it's a fair question, I suppose. Just understand that I protect my anonymity on this board for the same reason many others do: experience has taught me that when people know who I am, it is much more difficult to speak freely and openly, because people make so many asusmptions based on who they think I am. Being able to speek freely is what enables me to try to help others on this board, which is my main reason for being here (in addition to the things I learn every time I come here). That is why I do not share my resume with everyone here.

Having said that: I have directed close to a hundred theatrical productions, several feature films, numerous docs and commercials, and have appeared as a performer in many hundreds of projects. My experience is international and spans a number of decades, and has brought me in touch with a significant number of 'stars', i.e. widely recognized performers, directors, writers, etc.

ooops....assumptions

quote:

Originally posted by zdirector:
Ok, it's a fair question, I suppose. Just understand that I protect my anonymity on this board for the same reason many others do: experience has taught me that when people know who I am, it is much more difficult to speak freely and openly, because people make so many asusmptions based on who they think I am. Being able to speek freely is what enables me to try to help others on this board, which is my main reason for being here (in addition to the things I learn every time I come here). That is why I do not share my resume with everyone here.

Just the type of response I was expecting.

Like "donquixote," outside of more appropriate language, you've managed to talk at length -- and say absolutely nothing (by chance, did you attend the same English Lit and creative writing class as our young friend?). If you possessed the professionalism and courage to stand behind your remarks like all of the Backstage columnists who routinely contribute here (who always include their actual names and web addresses), perhaps I'd be more inclined to take your excuses seriously.

Requesting a current resume is as common in this industry as fleas on dogs. Your silence speaks in volumes.

“Whatever works.”

www.robertkim.com
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0453647

You obviously don't comprehend the point I was making about anonymity on this board. Ask any celebrity about the need for anonymity and they will explain it to you.

Had I known that Brad Pitt and Steven Spielberg regularly participated on this board, I'd have been more discreet.

Have we forgotten our Prosac today?

Darn it....busted!

Robert Kim, is it best for the acting career to get a very well-known two year acting school in Hollywood, than a 4 year college?

I will admit to having a bit of a "mommy" perspective here, because I am currently struggling/discussing/supporting 2 sons (both professional actors) who are at the age for college. One will probably finish, one will probably not.

Full disclosure: I have a degree in a subject completely unrelated to my current profession. My minor (theatre) is related, but I didn't use it for many years after college. You just never know where life will lead you.

Robert Kim, you are displaying the marks of an uneducated person (which you admit you are). You aren't answering the question that is asked. The original poster, who has already made the decision to go back to college, did NOT ask if a college degree was required for success in this industry (and I agree with you there). They ASKED:
>> What degree do you guys think could help an actor with there career if they studied it?

So you are arguing about something that wasn't the question in the first place.

So why does inability to LISTEN to a question and answer it, mark you as uneducated? That is exactly my point, and the point of others on this thread:

Getting a college education does other things for you besides teach you a trade. It requires you to learn life skills, like prioritizing, making sacrifices, logical decision making processes, communicating with others on a variety of topics that might not interest you at all (acting), etc. It says you can finish what you start (a tough thing for many creative types).

College makes you a multi-dimensional person, even if your degree is completely unrelated to your career. THAT will help your acting career, even if you never take an acting class in college. Interesting actors are those who are multi-dimensional..they have lived life and have much to draw on, much to bring to their characters.

One way (not the only way) to get that, is to go to college.

So...to answer the DewRag's original question: what majors will help? I would vote for psychology (studying the human thought process is a big deal for actors, and will help you in your other relationships) along with the marketing you were headed toward. One area of study that is kind of "cerebral" and the other "practical".

A