I am going absolutely batty because I can't work enough. I also write. I want to make basic, cheap, character driven movies written by me that require simple locations and no special editing. I was thinking of starting out in black and white because I have no lighting equipment and apparently black and white is less sensitive to light changes than color. Maybe then I could get by just from the natural light.

I am on an extremely low budget. I am thinking of buying a Flip Mino HD and using the windows moviemaker program that came with my laptop.

Any thoughts? Would this just be a waste of time? Anyone have experience with the Mino?

Thanks!

NO! I say go for it. Everything you do is good for learning. If you are just starting out. You need to learn, about how you work, what sort of tecknique you will find most valuable. Before plunking down a load a cash. There is a great book called 30 dollar film school with lots if very basic info.

Always keep in mind, it's not the camera that gets the shot. It the cam op/cinematographer that gets the shot. The camera is just there to capture the image its pointed at.

I have seen some pretty nice footage from some pretty low-level cameras. It's always the framing and lighting that impresses me. Learn that, and it won't matter if you are using a 100.00 camera or a 40,000.00 camera.

Never get wrapped up in names and brands of cameras, until you have a good grasp on framing and what it is you expect of the camera when compared to your experience. Don't buy too far above your level, just a little above. With the more complex cameras, it gets frustrating trying to acheive your goals when you cannot devote a LOT of time to learning it.

I could hand someone a $50,000+ Panavision or a Red and the footage would come out the same as if it were shot on a 100.00 camera, if they aren't used to framing, focus, iris, exposure, shutter speeds, how to use zebra, the list goes on.

quote:

Originally posted by DocBernard

I could hand someone a $50,000+ Panavision or a Red and the footage would come out the same as if it were shot on a 100.00 camera, if they aren't used to framing, focus, iris, exposure, shutter speeds, how to use zebra, the list goes on.

The camera I am thinking about, the Flip Mino costs $200 and has none of the features you specified. That is why I am thinking about going black and white, to get rid of the need for advanced lighting techniques.

Exactly my point, LOL. As long as the camera does what you want, then its a good one. LOL, I have been shooting for years now, and sometimes I get asked if this or that camera is a good one, and they are talking about a camera costing thousands of dollars. My first question is to them, "what are going to do with it, and how much experience do you have with a camera of that magnitude?". But on the other hand, I get great deals that way, because people get frustrated and give up when actually they bought too much of a camera for their skill level as a shooter.

Don't get me wrong, some of those cameras out there are really nice and have some amazing features. But I would never recommend a beginner motorcycle rider go out and buy a 1200cc Hayabusa. Same thing with cameras.

So, yes I think the Mino would be an excellent starting camera for you. I would love to see some of your B&W footage when you are done, as well. Happy Filming!!!!

Thanks Doc. I agree, some people are gear obsessed when there is a certain magic in making due with what one has.

quote:

Originally posted by Gabriel Frieland:
I am going absolutely batty because I can't work enough. I also write. I want to make basic, cheap, character driven movies written by me that require simple locations and no special editing. I was thinking of starting out in black and white because I have no lighting equipment and apparently black and white is less sensitive to light changes than color. Maybe then I could get by just from the natural light.

I am on an extremely low budget. I am thinking of buying a Flip Mino HD and using the windows moviemaker program that came with my laptop.

Any thoughts? Would this just be a waste of time? Anyone have experience with the Mino?

Thanks!

Not Movie Maker. Too limited and it's not possible (that I could find) to save anything in a large enough resolution format. You'll get through editing and then be all wild as you can't save it as a big enough file and it will look like shit. On a budget? I would spring for Sony Vegas if I were you.

Thanks Miss Stone, I'll check out Vegas.

I have decided that if I get a camcorder it will be the Kodak Zi6, which is less than the Mino HD and has a better picture quality.

Ever seen the Danish film "Celebration"? It's got almost willfully rough quality. But what carries it is story (designed in this case to suit the "look".)

It all starts with story. Get a story that BELONGS on a Flip Mini and it'll work.

Celebration is a great example. Blair Witch is the most famous. Assisted Living is yet another..

I also really recommend "Glass Jaw," a fantastic film shot with one of those old fischer price PXL cameras!

jim brings up a real good point...if you think of an idea that NEEDS to be told on the smaller scale, that is what you should make!! the results are not only useually great, they are phnnominal!!

About three years ago, I acted in a horror film with a budget of about a million dollars. Litterally, a day after it wrapped, I was approached by the Production Designer and one of the effects guys to improv a short using left over blood and effects materials from that shoot.

We shot a 20 minute or so short sing a mini-dv camera and the above said left over supplies. Each of us came in with ideas of movies we always wanted to make...and looked for common ground.

What we made turned out to be one of my strongest performances (at least at that time) and one weird little movie. It has played all over at festivals and whatnot.

The budget of that movie? About $20. A three pack of blank tapes, a case of iced tea and lunch.

i think making these kinds of flicks is the best thing you can do to further your career. Its fun, you stretch your "instrument" and you sometimes end up with something good.

And when you don't...you useually learn from it anyway!!

I don't know the look of the FlipMini..but I'm always interested in such things. had a day job in the electronics section of a Target this Holiday season, and I sold a ton of them!

quote:

Originally posted by Gabriel Frieland:
I was thinking of starting out in black and white because I have no lighting equipment and apparently black and white is less sensitive to light changes than color.

This is a common misconception. B&W is not less sensitive... it's just a completely different animal. In some cases, it is even more sensitive than color.

quote:

Maybe then I could get by just from the natural light.

Natural light is OK to use. But first, I recommend you search the internet on "three point lighting" (or "3 point lighting"). Also do searches on "diy lighting" or "lighting on a budget".

In just two hours of looking through stuff on the internet, you'll have a MUCH better idea of how to begin to light a scene with stuff you might already have access to.

Another thing I wholly recommend for the beginner... listen to the director commentary on Robert Rodriguez's El Mariachi DVD. He lighted that entire movie with two $6 Home Depot clamp lights, and color-corrected bulbs (which aren't even necessary with digital editing since computers can do color correction for you).

And besides the lighting information... there is a ton of info he gives for making a movie with little to no budget. You'd be amazed what you can do with your imagination.

Good luck!

Thanks everyone.

Harlem- what a cool story. I have had similar experiences with short improvised films, such a great learning experience.

Pauly-

I actually got the idea in my head about B&W being easier to work with from an interview I saw with Christopher Nolan on his first film 'Following'. I think I saw the interview on the slamdance website. He said something about shooting in black and white being easier to pull off with less equipment, but he shot in 16mm.

Any books you would recommend on ultra low budget/guerrilla film making?

quote:

Originally posted by Gabriel Frieland:
I actually got the idea in my head about B&W being easier to work with from an interview I saw with Christopher Nolan on his first film 'Following'. I think I saw the interview on the slamdance website. He said something about shooting in black and white being easier to pull off with less equipment, but he shot in 16mm.

Pull off B&W with less equipment? I'm not sure one way or the other. I'll have to check out the interview you mentioned. But I will say that I've never shot in B&W (digital) because I could find no cost/time savings associated with it.

Two things I can be fairly sure of... 1.) Since he shot on film, it was a lot cheaper (and probably generally easier on him) to have the film developed in B&W rather than color and 2.) I've set up scenes with two 150 watt flood lights plus the light coming in a window. I can't imagine it getting much easier than that. *shrug*

IMO, it's just kind of irrelevent when you don't have professional equipment. You have to use your imagination to work around problems that professionals can throw money at. And I tend to think that you'll have problems with both B&W and color.

Here's my best suggestion to you: Do a little internet research on lighting concepts, DIY lighting projects, and guerilla filmmaking. Get a few things together that you'll need, and start practicing in both B&W and color. I mean, if you're working with digital, post production isn't going to cost you anything. That's the beauty of it! For nothing more than the cost of your time, it gives you the opportunity to make mistakes and learn what works best.

You don't even necessarily need to buy a camcorder right away. You can use a (still picture) digital camera to learn how to light scenes and do post production stuff like color correction. I even shot a short mock interview using the movie mode on my digital camera that cost me $120.

If you don't have a video camera then take your digital camera, shoot some pictures, make slideshows with a soundtrack, and burn it to DVD. Or do stop-time animation. Anything! Anything to get you working and learning about photography, color, lighting, etc. Study what you do. See what worked and what didn't. Strive to make the next one better.

quote:

Any books you would recommend on ultra low budget/guerrilla film making?

I would say Robert Rodriguez's Rebel Without A Crew... but that's more like a "pep talk" to the aspiring filmmaker. You could probably pull up a few ideas if you search the internet. Also search Amazon and read the reviews before you commit to buying a book.

Hey I say ggo for it. You do not nee to have the best equipment. You just need to have the attitude that you are going to do the best with what you have.

There is something to be said about starting with minimal equipment. You will develop a foundation unlike any other who starts out with a $3000 camera and $3000 worth of lighting equip.

I went to graduate school for acting. I wanted to go to Yale or NYU. I did not get into either. Although I got over 11 offers from some prestigious institutions. I ultimately chose the University of Missouri @ Kansas City. Best choice I ever made.

I fear no actor from the "best" schools. I went into grad school with the attitude that I came in to be developed into the best actor I can be. That attitude was the best thing ever. Not only did I become the best actor I could be, I became.............well check out my video #1
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Thank you Pauly and Eyez.

So difficult to shoot an entire film using ambient lighting, but here's a youtube clip preview of a student film that was done entirely using ambient and looks good:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gajVxF5iZ5E

Also the 'Pusher' series by Danish film maker Nicolas Winding Refn turned out pretty good using ambient.

Got El Mariachi back on my que, got to check the commentary!

Listen, even a $20M film (Crank2) was shot with prosumer camcorders. Of course the movie sucked big time, but it is a trend to use cheaper cameras for some action flicks.
But why?
So even a pocket camera could have its place, somewhere.

If you use outdoor natural light, I think the Flip can yeild some nice results. Here's a paper puppet animated short I shot entirely on the Flip HD:
http://www.vimeo.com/4253983

I say it's a little gizmo that's well worth the money.

Imagion my surprise when I just read an article showing how the Flip HD camcorder is being used in the new Ferrari Challenge series on Speed. It will be integrated in post since the show is shot with the JVC ProHD camcorders. It is being used in special situations like at the apex of a turn where it's too dangerous to locate a camera op.
http://broadcastengineering.co...hallnge-series-0602/