I did a student film and this guy playing the undercover cop shows up with his own weapon and AMMO. The director would not deal with it, even after I politely alerted him to it and said I was really uncomfortable. The scene required I have a gun to my head and we did have prop guns. The gun owner was just thinking it would be more realistic, I believe and seemed very responsible and let me check the gun was empty etc but he still was just a stranger off the street to me and the others. Noone seemed to understand and finally the director had us swap guns so I held the real one to chill me out but it was terribly handled and after the shoot the director got a HUGE earful off of me, let me tell you! He did not want to tell the guy to put it away as he thought that would be too "forward", can you believe it! This gutless unprofessional ruined the shoot. The solution was simple. "No firearms on the set." Take control of the project but he was too wimpy to do it....

I am surprised you even went on with the shoot. That is just insane. How did anyone even know he had the proper paperwork for it or actually knew how to use it properly? That is just flat out nuts. And that director has no balls to let something like that happen on his set.

I would have split asap.

OMG. Absolutely stunning. I know we all look forward to the opportunity to work, sometimes we brave ridiculous circumstances because we don't know when the next opportunity will arise, but you simply cannot sacrifice your LIFE for the sake of some supposed realism.

I think you did everything you could considering the circumstances and I applaud your effort to get through the day. I know you must have been in shock and I can feel you looking around for someone to be the voice of reason. But it seems you were the only voice of reason. It's a great lesson on how all actors have to be there on advocate.

I'm guessing this was a non-union shoot, so there is no one to report this incident to?

Miss Stone,

Obviously, you did the right thing about complaining -- LOUDLY. I don't think I've ever heard anything quite like this on the board.

It may be appropriate here to remind everyone about how Brandon Lee (Bruce's son) died tragically in a gun-related accident during the filming of "The Crow II." Even WITH a certified firearms expert on set, the "stunt gun" was mishandled, killing Brandon instantly.

Anytime you're working on a set that you feel is unsafe for ANY reason, state your case and simply walk-off. Nothing is worth your health and safety, nothing.

Found this online...... And thanks Roz. You put in best. I WAS in shock.....

The 12 Greatest Myths about
Firearms on Film Sets


Blanks
Myth #1: "Blanks are not dangerous."
Reality: At close distances, blanks can be extremely dangerous. This is why firearms on film sets must always be handled by experts, and not just someone who happens to own a gun; it takes a lot of knowledge and experience to know exactly WHAT those dangerous ranges are and how to coordinate scenes so everyone stays safe.

Myth #2: "Okay, then ... blanks are too dangerous."
Reality: When properly handled and supervised, firearms are no more dangerous than any other prop on the film set. Just remember that - loaded or not - firearms require the UNDIVIDED attention of a licenced expert.

Myth #3: "But my brother-in-law/dad/buddy is a cop/hunter/target shooter. They can handle them for me."
Reality: There are legal restrictions on the possession and supervision of firearms in Canada, and they apply to everyone. It's not just knowing about firearms; movie firearms require specialized knowledge and safety procedures and a good understanding of the unique nature of the firearms used in film.

Myth #4: "But all we need to do is keep people a safe distance away when firing blanks."
Reality: I am often asked what the safe distance is for a particular blank. The fact is that there is NO SAFE DISTANCE in front of a blank when fired. There are only SAFER distances. Well, okay, a mile is safe. A foot is not safe. Any distance in between depends on the power of the blank, the nature of the firearm and the angle that it is fired. Blanks expel large volumes of burning gases plus flakes of burnt and unburnt gunpowder with explosive force. Every firearm has a different dangerous range and this is why firearms safety specialists spend a great deal of their time learning about the individual characteristics of every firearm before it is used on set. Even when a blank is far enough away to be relatively harmless to exposed skin, particles can still cause eye injury.

Myth#5: "So it is always safer to use the lowest power possible."
Reality: Not always. Blanks can usually be supplied in 1/4, 1/2 or full power loads. In some cases, however, it is more dangerous to use low power loads than full power. Semi-automatic and automatic firearms must be specially modified to fire blanks, and the action will only cycle properly with loads designed for them. If lower power loads are used, the firearms can jam. This can be dangerous because a jammed firearm is still loaded and can potentially become unjammed during the scene.

Myth #6: "So 1/4 loads and 1/2 loads are less power than full loads."
Reality: Not always. The terms "1/4" "1/2," and "full" load are essentially meaningless unless you are using them to compare the same manufacturer's loads in the same firearm. The power of a blank depends directly on how much gunpowder is in it and inversely on the square of the distance away from the muzzle. Also, all firearms have differing characteristics. Some have an open barrel, some use a restrictor plate and some have baffled barrels. There is no way to predict the hazard simply by the designation on the box. A 1/2 power .45 calibre blank can be more powerful than a full power 9mm blank. A 1/4 load shotgun blank is greater than a full power handgun blank, and rifle blanks can be 10 times more hazardous than the most powerful handgun blank.

Myth #7: "Then it is always safer to be farther away."
Reality: Distance is your friend. It is better to increase the distance between a firearm and an actor than to decrease the power. In rare cases, however, it can be safer to be REALLY close. It is all about control. If actors are six feet apart, it is difficult to control and there is no way to rely on the actor always hitting their mark perfectly in order to keep people safe. This is why blanks are almost never fired toward another person. Even at farther distances, debris can hit someone in the eye. (Eye protection is one of our biggest concerns.) But if the firearm were to be six inches away, the actor's head is not in frame and they could wear face and body protection. But with editing, there really is no need to ever have an actor in front of a gun when it fires.

Myth #8: "I have heard of 'non-guns' that fire a muzzle flash electronically. They must be safer to use because they can be fired directly at actors."
Reality: They are rarely used today because they are expensive, don't look real and are not that much safer because they use a tiny explosive charge up the barrel to simulate the muzzle flash. You still can't shoot them at very close ranges without sufficient safety protection. An expert firearms handler can use blanks to give the director a gunshot that is just as safe and looks FAR better than the so-called non-guns currently on the market. I avoid them as much as possible.

Firearms
Myth #9: "We don't need a firearms specialist if we are not using real firearms."
Reality: In Canada, replica firearms are prohibited weapons and their use is almost as regulated as the real firearms they simulate. The average person in Canada cannot make or acquire replica firearms. Plus, there ARE safety issues, even if a production is just using toys painted to look real. They need legal supervision, actors must be briefed to not point them at anyone unless required for the scene and they must never leave the immediate vicinity of the film set. Actors have experienced dangerous situations where they have been mistaken for armed assailants and almost been shot by the real police. Firearms, real or fake, must ALWAYS be treated with respect.

Myth #10: "All this expertise costs a lot of money and I don't have the budget for that. I can save money by cutting a few corners and not telling anyone."
Reality: Lack of money is no excuse for getting people hurt. EVERY FILMMAKER has a legal and moral obligation to protect the safety of their cast, their crew - whether paid or unpaid - and any bystanders and citizens in the area.

Accidents
Myth: "Brandon Lee was killed because:
a) a real cartridge was accidentally loaded into a firearm, or
b) he was hit by a wad from the blank, or
c) the Lee family is cursed."
Reality: Brandon Lee died because of a series of contributing factors that started when a production company tried to save a few dollars by sending the weapons specialist home early and turning over the firearms supervision to a busy props assistant. Brandon Lee's mother sued the production for negligence and ultimately received a majour settlement, but all the money in the world will not bring back a promising young actor killed because of preventable mistakes.

Myth: "Okay, you've convinced me that having qualified experts on the set is important. But actors don't need to know anything about safety; the experts take care of that."
Reality: On the contrary, actors SHOULD know something about firearms safety because they are the likeliest to be the first ones to get hurt if something goes wrong. Sure, actors may feel safe because they are shooting in majour filmmaking centers like Los Angeles, Vancouver, Winnipeg or Toronto where there is access to this expertise, but remember that while Brandon Lee died on a North Carolina movie set and Antonio Velasco was killed by a firearm in Mexico, Jon-Erik Hexum died on a television set in the middle of Los Angeles. One would also think that we have come a long way in firearms safety on film sets in recent years but I was quite astonished to hear at a recent workshop I was teaching in Los Angeles that a so-called firearms "expert" on a film set had actually brought live ammunition to the set in direct contravention of safety rules and industry practice.

Yes, actors SHOULD take the time to learn more about firearms safety. Knowledge is power and a knowledgeable actor is in a better position to judge for themselves if their safety is being taken care of. If they show up on set one day and there is not proper supervision, they can begin asking those important questions BEFORE something happens.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Training Workshops | Motion Picture Services | Feature Articles

That is scary! Since this was a student film, I believe you can contact their professor.

I was actually going to step it up one further- going to the dean. I sent the dopey director the column I posted above but I just don't think he gets it!!!Yeah, he is still young but he needs to grow up! I am a nice person but damn! Who else here agrees without question that they too would go to the dean? I mean, you can say you would but would you really? I want to and plan too and want to know I am in the right.HONESTY please!

I wouldn't start with the dean. Start with the professor and see where that goes.If you don't get satisfaction, then move "up the food chain" but give the professor a chance to do the right thing.

I agree, I would start with their professor.

The director was young and clueless and stupid, all of the above. What this is about now is empowering yourself. You need to feel like you're being heard.

Go to his professor and be prepared with not only what went wrong, but what you would like to see happen. Be it a letter of apology, safety issues addressed in class, on set do's and don'ts, actor sensitivity training!! Whatever. The more specific you are about what they can do, the more serious they will take your request. Maybe take the little twerp out back and play russian roulette!!

Are you planning to do it in a meeting or letter or email?

Please let us know.

I called the department head directly. He said they would be calling the student director right away and there will be a hearing at the school in front of the commitee to decide what penalty will be imposed. He was very stressed by it!!! The student emailed me an apology and as a side note, said the footage will be available very soon. I also stressed to the department head that these rich kids need to be more appreciative and respectful of our time. Frustrating dealing with these ungrateful brats that think they can just click their fingers and we'll jump through hoops. Never again. I plan on being very particular when it comes to future projects. All actors need to do the same. This is OUR town damnnit!!!

Well, this is the latest. The professor called me up for more details today and said that the student has committed a serious violation of school policy. Duh. Anyway, he could not tell me exactly what would happen as they have to protect the privacy etc of the student, which is understandable, However, I grilled him as best as I could and from what i could "read between the lines" it looks as if the student will get expelled from the school.

Most "violations" on a film set don't involve possible life a and death scenarios. This post was a great lesson for everybody.

The lesson is simple: "SAFETY FIRST."

If the kid gets expelled, you'd better be careful he doesn't come after you! After all, he does have a loaded weapon. I think it was a ridiculous thing to do. I see it as an honest, yet, very very very stupid mistake. I've done shows where we used real weapons such as guns, knives, tomohawks, and pyrotechnics, but it was always in a controlled environment. Whenever ANY type of stunt work is involved, there should always be a professional on hand to oversee the work being done. And even in that case, there are inherent risks involved. Im glad you kept safe, and its a shame that the events unfolded in such a way when they could've been avoided from the get-go.

quote:

Originally posted by avidactor:
If the kid gets expelled, you'd better be careful he doesn't come after you! After all, he does have a loaded weapon. I think it was a ridiculous thing to do. I see it as an honest, yet, very very very stupid mistake. I've done shows where we used real weapons such as guns, knives, tomohawks, and pyrotechnics, but it was always in a controlled environment. Whenever ANY type of stunt work is involved, there should always be a professional on hand to oversee the work being done. And even in that case, there are inherent risks involved. Im glad you kept safe, and its a shame that the events unfolded in such a way when they
could've been avoided from the get-go.

WHAT a ridiculous, paranoid thing to say. You CANNOT be serious!!! And if you read it carefully, HE did not have the gun- someone else did! Oh I see- this was your failed attempt at HUMOR. Ha ha ha. I am laughing so much..... NOT. Yeah, the whole ordeal has been so much fun so far. Thanks for helping out.

I wasn't trying to be funny. there are some real nuts out there. I assumed the actor with the gun was also a student. I wasn't trying to freak you out, god knows dealing with the situation you did must've been nerve racking enough. Like I said, I'm sorry you had to go through the ordeal, and I know if the director was more of a leader, the whole situation could've been avoided. So, thanks for the oh-so-defensive remarks! Its always great to get smart-ass comments when one is trying to be sympathetic. It reminds me of the time I was taking my ticket at the lincoln tunnel toll and said thanks to the guy and he said back, "I don't need your thanks!". Good people, gotta love em.

You were serious! Speechless.....

Avidactor has a point. Even though it was his own fault, he may blame you. I don't see anything crazy or offensive in his post.

It was a useless comment here. What does he suggest, I walk around in Kevlar for the next year? This is ridiculous and so NOT helpful. We are supposed to offer HELP- not make paranoid assumptions. And for the record, never speaking up in life for fear of repercussions is what is wrong with society. I am thinking that you two would NOT have done anything so it is lucky that I was on that set that day...God,I would not want to be getting mugged with either of you around either. Yeah, you wouldn't wanna get involved. Too risky. Better let me die in the street as then you can feel safe. Good luck sleeping at night. in life- you get what you give. I will finish by saying this- If you were needing help in the street, I WOULD step in..... better to die on your feet than live life on your knees.....Good luck.