How long would it take to make an amateur voice sound like a professional marketable voice? If someone dedicates to singing completely.

It's something workable.

That's an impossible question to answer.

It could take a couple of years, or never, depending on the person.

Just as in acting.


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The music business is actually much more complicated than the acting business and chock full of scams.

It is an entirely different business model and one you should spend considerable time learning about.

This book is a good start:
http://www.amazon.com/Need-Kno...id=1245192029&sr=8-1

The actual answer to your question is - how many female singers are actually known for the quality of their voices?

With a decent voice and the right team behind you - who knows?
With the wrong team, no question - you're screwed.

Odds are not good.

This is why it's so important to do a thing because you love it. Otherwise, if you don't achieve fame, wealth or those other things, you'll resent the time, effort and money you invest in it. If you love something, you'll do it, anyway, and be glad for it.

Of course, you need to learn about the business and get your savvy on, too. And learn to appreciate the competition and roll with the punches.

In this life, you buy your ticket. You take your chances.

quote:

Originally posted by Patricia Shanks Voice Studio:
This is why it's so important to do a thing because you love it. Otherwise, if you don't achieve fame, wealth or those other things, you'll resent the time, effort and money you invest in it. If you love something, you'll do it, anyway, and be glad for it.

Of course, you need to learn about the business and get your savvy on, too. And learn to appreciate the competition and roll with the punches.

In this life, you buy your ticket. You take your chances.

Yes, that makes sense to love what you are doing, well singing is up there. I think it will help bring up my whole entertainment career most importantly. Especially in case, I do a musical or actually do some professional singing on the sideline. I just need to open all roads for myself, and to make sure I left no stone unturned.

There is always going to be competition, in any field, but you just to pay attention to your own career while having an eye for something new and make it the best it could be.

Patricia Shanks, have you ever heard a singer that started with a normal voice into a great voice (and at the extremes a weak voice to decent one)?

I've been a musician all my life, and have done some sound engineering and producing.

With the technology available in the studio these days, a skilled engineer can make just about *anyone* sound serviceable -- of course great voices will stand out, but a "decent" vocal can be engineered in the studio.

The recording you can do on a computer is similar to word processing on Word. You can literally copy and paste *syllable by syllable* so long as you get a ton of vocal takes. Not only that, you can make a horribly out of tune singer sound perfectly in tune with the dreaded software tool called Autotune (which is the industry "secret" that is used on 99% of the pop music tracks out there).

That's the irony of American Idol -- as much as people like to dismiss it, the ones who make it to the top 10 or so can actually sing compared to quite a number of the other post-1990s pop singers out there.

Put it this way. The "Madonna business model" won. It's what Britney, Gwen Stefani (post No Doubt), Katy Pery, Beyonce, etc. are about. The "singers" are selling celebrity and a public personality/persona. It isn't about the music or talent (even if they have it). Beyonce isn't selling her talent. She's selling her celebrity/public personality. The label will package "personalities" (i.e. singers) with producers/songwriters. That's part of the reason why most of the American Idol winners/runner ups don't do as well as you'd think even though they are actually all excellent singers - once the initial "AI winner" notoriety has worn off (after the 1st album), they need the persona/celebrity/buzz to continue follow on sales for their subsequent albums because their actual singing talent won't sustain sales.

There is singing or playing music for the fun of it, and there is the music *business*.

If you think the film/tv world isn't all about "acting chops", in the music business it's even less about actual musical talent. (Note there are a lot of talented musicians who make a modest living from music, but actual talent has virtually nothing to do with whether you are mainstream or not -- being "mainstream" has everything to do with marketing, packaging, publicity, fashion, gossip, etc. -- anything but the talent).

Even Amy Winehouse -- who is actually a very talented interpretive singer -- wouldn't get the kind of exposure for her music if her personal life wasn't a train wreck that is fodder for the gossip rags and paparazzi. Make her a well-adjusted human being - and her records sell 95% less.

The music business is no longer about selling music. It's about selling celebrity.

It's in far worse shape than the film/tv world. Which is sad.

quote:

Originally posted by Mystique:
How long would it take to make an amateur voice sound like a professional marketable voice? If someone dedicates to singing completely.

I don't think she was referring to having her voice digitally enhanced.

quote:

Originally posted by donquixote:actual talent has virtually nothing to do with whether you are mainstream or not -- being "mainstream" has everything to do with marketing, packaging, publicity, fashion, gossip, etc. -- anything but the talent).

I respectfully disagree. Some of the best musicians of all time were very mainstream. Beatles, Rolling Stones, Aerosmith, AC/DC, Elton John, etc - all very mainstream, and their music was amazing (at least in my opinion it was).

quote:

Originally posted by Jon_K:

quote:

Originally posted by donquixote:actual talent has virtually nothing to do with whether you are mainstream or not -- being "mainstream" has everything to do with marketing, packaging, publicity, fashion, gossip, etc. -- anything but the talent).

I respectfully disagree. Some of the best musicians of all time were very mainstream. Beatles, Rolling Stones, Aerosmith, AC/DC, Elton John, etc - all very mainstream, and their music was amazing (at least in my opinion it was).

I should've been more clear. I mean *currently* in the industry, and not in the past. It's been a rapid race to the bottom in the last 10 years.

Yes, there's lots of great music out these days and phenomenal musicians - but they aren't mainstream.

Even Bob Dylan in an interview for his last record that had he tried to start a recording career now, he never would've been given a chance. And virtually all the bands you mentioned had they come up now instead of 40 years ago wouldn't have been given a shot.

Donquixote, how did they manage to get a record deal without having some initial great talent? They are listenable, but they do not have ‘the-voice’ as I would expect a top singer of today’s music would have.

I think the Beatles would still be moderately successful as is, but no way close to as close as they were. They would just be another band, not a legend. Today’s top singers have to sell a fantasy, a dream of some sort. Be it a nightmare, sex dream, lucid dream, or a combination, but it just have to be a dream that is beyond the average day.

interesting thread...voices mature much later than the average person realizes - and I am talking about singing voices. Late20s through mid30s actually. So finding the TRUE singing voice takes time and effort and there are no quick fixes. At the same time, it's not too late to discover the true instrument fully either!

That's good to know I suppose, I guess anything is possible if you really try hard enough to find a singing voice. My voice isn't horrible naturally, like people who embarrass themselves on American Idol in auditions, but it's not phenomenal like Whitney Houston or Sarah Brightman. Most professional singers (ones that have a record) have a signature voice, the gift, and I don't think I have that quality. I am not looking for fame either or riches, just a singing voice that will make people cry *of joy and awe*.

Susan Eichhorn, I really like your hair in the blog, it's stylish.

Mystique - thank you! what a sweet comment!

If you find YOUR voice - that voice that is uniquely YOU and you develop it and commit to it fully and let it be a vehicle of EXPRESSION instead of trying to IMPRESS, you will touch people with your reality and honesty. It doesn't need to be phenomenal it needs to be real.

Sometimes in this business we are so lead by what others want - casting directors, record execs etc etc that we forget what is truly OURS and the power we have in that.

quote:

Originally posted by Mystique:
have you ever heard a singer that started with a normal voice into a great voice (and at the extremes a weak voice to decent one)?

When I was teaching guitar years ago, I had a student who had so little sense of tune that he would sing a Paul Simon song and only the words told you that's what it was. I was studying voice at the time and gave him my teacher's name.

Within six months he had a lovely voice.

So it can be done.

It can never hurt for an actor to have control of that part of their instrument. But don't count on making ANY money at it, especially in any major city. There are some very talented people, some of whom have literally done it all their lives, who are struggling.

It's like learning to drive. Good to do, but don't envision yourself on a race track all at once. LOTS of people study voice and just as many don't have to.

It's one more skill. That's all.

quote:

Originally posted by JimChevallier:

quote:

Originally posted by Mystique:
have you ever heard a singer that started with a normal voice into a great voice (and at the extremes a weak voice to decent one)?

When I was teaching guitar years ago, I had a student who had so little sense of tune that he would sing a Paul Simon song and only the words told you that's what it was. I was studying voice at the time and gave him my teacher's name.

Within six months he had a lovely voice.

So it can be done.

It can never hurt for an actor to have control of that part of their instrument. But don't count on making ANY money at it, especially in any major city. There are some very talented people, some of whom have literally done it all their lives, who are struggling.

It's like learning to drive. Good to do, but don't envision yourself on a race track all at once. LOTS of people study voice and just as many don't have to.

It's one more skill. That's all.

That's good, since I just recorded my voice on my cell phone, and I replayed it. Not because it was mine, but it sounded ear bleeding horrible (off pitch, too weak/too strong, nothing special, monotone, lots of singing errors, bad pronunciation). It was embarrassing to listen too, and I realize my voice just sucks. I know I would booed, and thrown tomatoes at if I ever sing live.

I am actually a little disturbed by that (not going to put it youtube), it's just plain awful, and I am not exaggerating. The voice itself is typical female voice, kind of plain, even if the voice was trained it wouldn't go beyond average voice. I don't even think its average, its just a boring voice.

I need to reconsider singing. I have that voice American Idol judges would be like "what were you thinking?"

quote:

Originally posted by JimChevallier:

It can never hurt for an actor to have control of that part of their instrument. But don't count on making ANY money at it, especially in any major city. There are some very talented people, some of whom have literally done it all their lives, who are struggling.

This is so-o-o-o true. There are so many factors that determine if you'll make it at all. not much different from acting in that regard, eh?
The most liberating tool for aspiring musicians/singers/writers in a long time is the internet (myspace, youtube). It totally bypasses the record companies who in the past held the entire industry in their iron grip. No contract, no career. Now you can record an entire professional demo in your own bedroom and push it yourself. It's a different world.

Mystique, I think if you took voice lessons and practiced every single day for a year you would be extremely surprised how much your voice will change with solid training. Firstly, you will be taught how to breathe properly so what you describe as "too weak/too strong" will be properly supported in able for you to control things such as tempo, volume, etc. Also, if you think about what you are singing and really mean what you sing, the intention alone will be what moves people. Not all great singers have great intonation, but they still have that magic because they sing with feeling. I think it will benefit you to try lessons (such a release and a lot of fun!) if you really are passionate about singing, but like everyone else has said, it takes a long time before someone can be "ready" to compete. Best!

I am very interested in music as well. I just wonder are their agents for singers and on top of that how does the process of demo's and sending in to labels work out?

quote:

Originally posted by Mystique:
How long would it take to make an amateur voice sound like a professional, marketable voice?

I think it's a good time to remember what this young lady asked in the first place.

Notice she said, a "PROFESSIONAL, MARKETABLE VOICE."

As much as good training can transform a weak, unsupported voice dramatically at times, it can never turn a bad voice into a great one. I believe that this kind of talent is inborn, not created. No amount of money helped Madonna to any 'marketable' degree. It helped get her through "Evita," but notice she never became a Broadway diva, and never will. She is, and will remain, a pop singer.

Coaching and technique can only go so far.

My voice isn't bad as the voice itself it's just average, the vocal singing skill is bad.

Madonna is not a true singer but an entertainer. I like her though, but she's getting too mainstream and safe. Any album she releases though and her fans will buy (music lovers, madonna fans, the gays, women in their 30s).

Without a hit her album is only a safe deal, and with a hit it's iconic and best seller. I am talking to one of her songwriters right now, his name will remain private, but he tells me that if you're good you will find people who will buy you.